ACPA to fight Jazz's 757 acquisition

[c170b53]

Don't get your hopes up, no doubt their resolve will be to go the other way with pay.

[yycflyguy]

Don't get your hopes up, no doubt their resolve will be to go the other way with pay.

Why? Just because there have only been concessionary contracts for the past 11 years?

This industry ship is pointed in the wrong direction and unfortunately I don't see any resolve from the unions to halt or even slow the degradation.

[Jean-Pierre]

Got to love these fellows think pay will be good. Hahaha. You fly boys crack me up.

If jazz doesn't do it somebody else will?? Nice one.
Georgian should run RJ now. Is ok??

[one8tee]

Sure.. as long as its not for the CPA with AC (which has been negotiated until 2020). If Georgian had picked up this 57 contract that would be perfectly fine with me..

If they want to pick up some CRJ 900's and run them feeding WJ.. again.. Don't care.

Whats with the whole ac vs jazz thing?.. and Turd.. give it a rest just cuz theres one idiot on here doesnt mean every pilot in acpa is an idiot. Youre giving jazz a bad name. I've had the pleasure of jumpseating on quite a few AC flights and the pleasure of enjoying various AC driver's company in my captain's JS. and I'd be happy to work or grab a beer with any of them (just not at the same time)

180

[yycflyguy]

Sure.. as long as its not for the CPA with AC (which has been negotiated until 2020). If Georgian had picked up this 57 contract that would be perfectly fine with me..

If they want to pick up some CRJ 900's and run them feeding WJ.. again.. Don't care.

So long is it isn't to the detriment of the industry whole. I would care a great deal if Jazz lost flying to CMA or Georgian for lower wages. Try and see the big picture.

[HavaJava]

Sure.. as long as its not for the CPA with AC (which has been negotiated until 2020). If Georgian had picked up this 57 contract that would be perfectly fine with me..

If they want to pick up some CRJ 900's and run them feeding WJ.. again.. Don't care.

So long is it isn't to the detriment of the industry whole. I would care a great deal if Jazz lost flying to CMA or Georgian for lower wages. Try and see the big picture.

Amen brother! Most AC pilots I've spoken with are not concerned from an AC pilot perspective, but are concerned from a professional Canadian pilot perspective. All professional pilots in Canada should be watching this closely to make sure that Jazz doesn't lower the standard for this profession. As I've said before, I hope the Jazz pilots can negotiate a fair and respectable deal for flying the 57's and this entire discussion becomes a moot point.

[Localizer]

Amen brother! Most AC pilots I've spoken with are not concerned from an AC pilot perspective, but are concerned from a professional Canadian pilot perspective. All professional pilots in Canada should be watching this closely to make sure that Jazz doesn't lower the standard for this profession. As I've said before, I hope the Jazz pilots can negotiate a fair and respectable deal for flying the 57's and this entire discussion becomes a moot point.

Where was your concern for the industry when WestJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Where was your concern for the industry when CanJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Industry standard is more than just pay ... its also benefits, penison, working conditions ... these 2 companies have brought that standard down, but nobody seems to be leaning on them?? ... That makes it look like you have more of a problem with Jazz than "industry standard".

Just a little food for thought.

[sanjet]

Where was your concern for the industry when WestJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Where was your concern for the industry when CanJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Industry standard is more than just pay ... its also benefits, penison, working conditions ... these 2 companies have brought that standard down, but nobody seems to be leaning on them?? ... That makes it look like you have more of a problem with Jazz than "industry standard".

Just a little food for thought.

Westjet has brought the standard down for benefits, schedules and working conditions? Please elaborate.

[one8tee]

When you look at a company you have to look at total fleet.. once we do come out with an awesome contract you'll have to take into consideration as a pilot group we believe in status pay so the 57 skippers get paid as much as the -8 guys.

Secondy.. how much did a skyservice captain make.. may as well talk about that even though the point may be moot now.

Thirdly.. if CanJet picked up this contract you're telling me all these AC guys would still be up in arms? Yet their skippers make 80k and ours 120k.. please explain..

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Secondy.. how much did a skyservice captain make.. may as well talk about that even though the point may be moot now.

More that your Jazz captains will make....I believe it was in the $150k range

[rudder]

Secondy.. how much did a skyservice captain make.. may as well talk about that even though the point may be moot now.

More that your Jazz captains will make....I believe it was in the $150k range

And did the SG pilots have a DB pension plan? What about benefits? How about paid vacation entitlement? Looks like a comparison that is strictly T4 based may be apples vs oranges, or at best incomplete.

[yycflyguy]

Amen brother! Most AC pilots I've spoken with are not concerned from an AC pilot perspective, but are concerned from a professional Canadian pilot perspective. All professional pilots in Canada should be watching this closely to make sure that Jazz doesn't lower the standard for this profession. As I've said before, I hope the Jazz pilots can negotiate a fair and respectable deal for flying the 57's and this entire discussion becomes a moot point.

Where was your concern for the industry when WestJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Where was your concern for the industry when CanJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Industry standard is more than just pay ... its also benefits, penison, working conditions ... these 2 companies have brought that standard down, but nobody seems to be leaning on them?? ... That makes it look like you have more of a problem with Jazz than "industry standard".

Just a little food for thought.

3 wrongs certainly do not make 1 right.

In the Westjet case, their initial compensation was below industry standard. I know, I know, with their ESOP it boosted their income but that is a case of the employees taking a risk that the company will survive, and in their case they thrived. Since then they have raised their new hire pay and left seat 737 pays essentially the same as left seat A320. Yes AC has a DB but with their ESOP, their employees get their money sooner rather than later. A new hire is making $15k more a year, over $30k for team teal than their counterparts at AC. AC is the one guilty of not keeping with the times.

DB pension plan is a carrot that does not pay the mortgage today. With ACPA, whenever it is contract negotiation time, it is the first thing that the company attacks as it costs them big money. To tell you the truth, from what I have seen, the DB pension will not be there for me when I retire. I am sure we will negotiate it out for some magic beans.

[mbav8r]

sanjet wrote;
Westjet has brought the standard down for benefits, schedules and working conditions? Please elaborate.

No pension, min 15 or is it 16 days a month? Fill your own crew O2, clean up after passengers. Tons of red eyes(night shift) most places with a night shift pay a night premium. My understanding is with your 15 or 16 day min, if you bid some high credit flying the the rest of your 15 days gets filled with low credit. No credit for deadhead, I have been told by a few guys that some pairings are constructed with a deadhead only on day 1, which translates into 0 credit for day 1, aswell your per diem clock doesn't start till after 24 hours. So you're at work for 24 hours with zero pay in this situation.
At Jazz for example if you're senior enough, you could get your month done in 10 days.
You do have some good things going on, like FLIKA or whatever it is. Also the abilty to bank your overtime and you do seem to try and make commuting easier.
With your company growing and the stock and profit share getting more and more diluted, you must worry about retirement...
These are some of the complaints I hear from you guys. Fell free to correct me on any of the above

[beast]

and don't forget the lack of a professional uniform....its pretty lame when the F/A's are wearing suits and the pilots look like airport security guards in cheap leather jackets

but the cleaning airplanes thing is pretty big for me, its disgusting to watch the poor blokes picking up garbage in front of the passengers ...that has got to change before I would ever consider working there

[Krashman]

I think we got a bit off track here...

[yycflyguy]

I think we got a bit off track here...

Did we? Or is it all part of a bigger picture?

[Localizer]

I think we got a bit off track here...

No we didn't .. you wanted to talk about "industry standard" and how Jazz is the sole company that is bringing it down. Well .. you opened the door .. we're just walking thru.

I think Mbav8r expanded enough for me on my WJ thoughts.

[HavaJava]

Where was your concern for the industry when WestJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Where was your concern for the industry when CanJet lowered the standard for this profession?? ..

Industry standard is more than just pay ... its also benefits, penison, working conditions ... these 2 companies have brought that standard down, but nobody seems to be leaning on them?? ... That makes it look like you have more of a problem with Jazz than "industry standard".

Just a little food for thought.

If you search my posts you will find that I have a great concern for Canjet lowering the standard of the pilot profession. I am appalled at the low wages, especially the Captain rates. What upsets me the most about Canjet is their use of foreign pilots without any reciprocal agreement in place. They were able to undercut the competition because they could avoid training the necessary Canadian pilots and instead just hire foreigners.

This has been discussed ad naseum and I hope that the College of Pilots can do something to put a stop to crooked business practices and continuing decline in WAWCONs.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to keep any group of pilots from doing any particular work or saying that certain flying is only for certain airlines. I am just trying to make sure that those pilots get reimbursed a fair and equitable wage for doing it. You may say it's none of my business, but when my contract negotiations come around and my company says, "well, ABC pilots will do the same work for half the rate", it suddenly becomes very much my business.

[teacher]

When WJ arrived advertising "cheap travel" and offering "discount fares" they did more damage to this profession than Jazz could ever do by perpetuating the Walmart mentality that is plaguing our industry today. Cheap Cheap Cheap is all people are looking for and WJ made it front and centre in their advertising campaigns. It was easy than when they paid crap and everyone was on first year pay scales but things have changed and now they're no longer a discount carrier, thank God but the damage has been done.

Bringing standards down? Seriously? We'll see what the new pay scale is in the new contract than we'll talk.

[Rudy]

Hey, at least they Care-antee!

'Yeah, well, Westjet and Canjet screwed things up too' ???

Come on!

[Localizer]

Hey, at least they Care-antee!

'Yeah, well, Westjet and Canjet screwed things up too' ???

Come on!

The question was ... where was your concern for the "industry standard" when these 2 companies were "lowering the bar"?.

We haven't finished negotiations and the labels are already being applied. So again .. it seems like there is more of an issue with Jazz breaking its mold of regional carrier into something more, than this "industry standard" crap. We're fighting for a career contract ...

[KAG]

and don't forget the lack of a professional uniform....its pretty lame when the F/A's are wearing suits and the pilots look like airport security guards in cheap leather jackets

but the cleaning airplanes thing is pretty big for me, its disgusting to watch the poor blokes picking up garbage in front of the passengers ...that has got to change before I would ever consider working there

Our "cheap" leather jackets are custom made locally in YYC and cost around $800.
And no worries about the grooming, it takes 3 minutes and is not a big deal. It won't change so don't bother applying.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

You guys realize that we are all in this together and we ALL need professional help! I'm not talking psychiatrists either...I'm talking college, or Canada wide union, or whatever it takes to stop the "race to the bottom"....

[YO_MAMMA]

couldn't agree with you more

[KAG]

When WJ arrived advertising "cheap travel" and offering "discount fares" they did more damage to this profession than Jazz could ever do by perpetuating the Walmart mentality that is plaguing our industry today. Cheap Cheap Cheap is all people are looking for and WJ made it front and centre in their advertising campaigns. It was easy than when they paid crap and everyone was on first year pay scales but things have changed and now they're no longer a discount carrier, thank God but the damage has been done.

Bringing standards down? Seriously? We'll see what the new pay scale is in the new contract than we'll talk.

Please explain what damage has been done? Oh you mean flying being affordable to the general public? That was going to happen one way or another, Westjet or not. The train was once only for the rich and famous...get where I'm going with this?
What is wrong with a company flying people from A to B and actually turning profit? That profit isn't being taken from my pay or that that of my peers.
Our grooming saves the company millions, finances the next NG coming online. I get paid very well, but I'm not beyond cleaning a plane, and down the road making 200K+ I will still be there picking up trash because it helps my company save money, and to be honest I'm not too full of myself to lend a hand.