Best advice is to get off Avcanada with the exception of the employment forum. Use this as a research and information tool and avoid all the BS that gets spouted on here. I know it's difficult not to keep looking at a car wreck, butjust put your eyes on the road and go past it. Pick a handful of companies that you think may hire low timers and get to work on them, it is highly competitive, but a low timer will get hired at some point, maybe not this year... who knows when... but if you want it to be you then stay on point.
Don't be a part of the car wreck.
New guy - appalled
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
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I'm just one
- Rank 0
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:24 pm
Re: New guy - appalled
Hi there,
As a small operator (4 a/c) in the a northern area, I enjoy reading Avcanada. It helps me keep up with what is on the minds of fellow pilots, opertors etc. Although I have learnt all post here are opinions, there has been a lot of valuable information. I just need to remember to assess it and then file it in the appropriate place.
I do have to agree with some of the previous posters. From what I can see there are some FTUs that are misleading (to put it nicely) wanna be pilots. An educational package recently arrived at our local school stating that thousands of pilot are needed over the next five years. What garbage!
I feel badly for the low time pilots; there must be a lot of them out there. We receive an overwhelming number of resumes. I try and answer all electronic resume submissions and make on honest effort to point out something positive within the resume. . . but we do not hire them.
The way our company is set up I need all pilots to be able to get into any given a/c PIC. (we run single VFR - multi IFR also contract requirement come into play) I do not believe in ramp work. After 2 years of ramping I really don't want to have them flying our a/c. The rust is thick by this time. Our hiring priority is local pilots first, then pilots from the surrounding areas, always recommended by word of mouth. Our pilot turn over is next to nil. We did hire one fella, years ago, we didn't know him or get a recommendation on him from someone we knew prior to hiring him. That was a disaster.
As for flight instructing - I give the instructor credit for half the instructing time. Good way to build time but real experience it is not.
Float work - I assess this as my biggest risk. I'm very particular as to who does our float work. Ultimately it will be someone with local knowledge, and someone we have known for some time. At one time I read on this forum that float pilots should be assessed on the number of take-offs and landings rather than their hours. What a great idea, it made so much sense. We are now using this as a guideline.
Not wanting to be negative but just sharing what it is like in our little part of the world. If I could give any advise at all, I'd repeat what many here have already said.. . . Investigate the job market for new pilots prior to entering into training. Don't take other peoples word for it. They are trying to sell you the training.
Good luck to all those looking for work this season.
Fly safe.
As a small operator (4 a/c) in the a northern area, I enjoy reading Avcanada. It helps me keep up with what is on the minds of fellow pilots, opertors etc. Although I have learnt all post here are opinions, there has been a lot of valuable information. I just need to remember to assess it and then file it in the appropriate place.
I do have to agree with some of the previous posters. From what I can see there are some FTUs that are misleading (to put it nicely) wanna be pilots. An educational package recently arrived at our local school stating that thousands of pilot are needed over the next five years. What garbage!
I feel badly for the low time pilots; there must be a lot of them out there. We receive an overwhelming number of resumes. I try and answer all electronic resume submissions and make on honest effort to point out something positive within the resume. . . but we do not hire them.
The way our company is set up I need all pilots to be able to get into any given a/c PIC. (we run single VFR - multi IFR also contract requirement come into play) I do not believe in ramp work. After 2 years of ramping I really don't want to have them flying our a/c. The rust is thick by this time. Our hiring priority is local pilots first, then pilots from the surrounding areas, always recommended by word of mouth. Our pilot turn over is next to nil. We did hire one fella, years ago, we didn't know him or get a recommendation on him from someone we knew prior to hiring him. That was a disaster.
As for flight instructing - I give the instructor credit for half the instructing time. Good way to build time but real experience it is not.
Float work - I assess this as my biggest risk. I'm very particular as to who does our float work. Ultimately it will be someone with local knowledge, and someone we have known for some time. At one time I read on this forum that float pilots should be assessed on the number of take-offs and landings rather than their hours. What a great idea, it made so much sense. We are now using this as a guideline.
Not wanting to be negative but just sharing what it is like in our little part of the world. If I could give any advise at all, I'd repeat what many here have already said.. . . Investigate the job market for new pilots prior to entering into training. Don't take other peoples word for it. They are trying to sell you the training.
Good luck to all those looking for work this season.
Fly safe.
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Slappy the Squirrel
- Rank 5
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:26 am
Re: New guy - appalled
As we all know a lot of people who set out to fly for a living never really do make it to that stage, for a variety of reasons. In my experience the biggest cull happens when they finish their commercial license and are faced with the seemingly impossible job search, where if you get "lucky" you'll find a dock, instructor, or ramp job. In my experience there are generally two ways that the newly licensed pilot will react, one will spit and complain and whine about how crappy the industry is and how there are no jobs and how crappy the few jobs are. And with a few exceptions they will be unsuccessful in finding work.
The other kind realizes how crappy the industry is, but basically just kind of sucks it up and keeps plugging away at it until they find something, which they usually do. They see the bright side of the situation and know that the job will be crappy for a couple years, but they make the best of it knowing it will not always be crappy.
Flight training on average will take about 2 years, I look at the next couple years after that as an apprenticeship. It is too bad, but you have to face the facts that being a pilot is not easy for the first couple years. The sooner someone realizes that the sooner something will come up.
I guess what I'm trying to say is stay positive because something will come up eventually!
Good luck!
The other kind realizes how crappy the industry is, but basically just kind of sucks it up and keeps plugging away at it until they find something, which they usually do. They see the bright side of the situation and know that the job will be crappy for a couple years, but they make the best of it knowing it will not always be crappy.
Flight training on average will take about 2 years, I look at the next couple years after that as an apprenticeship. It is too bad, but you have to face the facts that being a pilot is not easy for the first couple years. The sooner someone realizes that the sooner something will come up.
I guess what I'm trying to say is stay positive because something will come up eventually!
Good luck!
Re: New guy - appalled
"...I do not believe in ramp work. After 2 years of ramping I really don't want to have them flying our a/c. The rust is thick by this time."
Hallelujah - somebody gets it!
The common sense is thick on the ground in your neck of the woods - no wonder you do not have any turn-over, you probably actually likely treat your guys with respect and they like working for you and look after your equipment. What a concept!
Hallelujah - somebody gets it!
The common sense is thick on the ground in your neck of the woods - no wonder you do not have any turn-over, you probably actually likely treat your guys with respect and they like working for you and look after your equipment. What a concept!
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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Big Pistons Forever
- Top Poster
- Posts: 5946
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: West Coast
Re: New guy - appalled
It sounds like you run a first class operation and realise that treating people right often costs nothing but is a big contributor to a sustainable long term successful business...unlike so many of your peers. However you statement that you do not hire low timers, is a reflection of the difficulty new pilots have in breaking into this industry. This is not meant as a criticism , because for the type of flying you do you obviously need experience, but rather it is another indication that there is only a relatively limited number of opportunities for new pilots to secure that crucial first job. Therefore IMO new pilots need to be prepared for this reality and understand that it may take tham awhile to get their foot in the door and they must be prepared to be flexible and persistant in their job search. The good news is when the motivated ones get their start they will eventually have the opportunity to work for a good operator, which are definitely out there.I'm just one wrote:Hi there,
As a small operator (4 a/c) in the a northern area, I enjoy reading Avcanada. It helps me keep up with what is on the minds of fellow pilots, opertors etc. Although I have learnt all post here are opinions, there has been a lot of valuable information. I just need to remember to assess it and then file it in the appropriate place.
I do have to agree with some of the previous posters. From what I can see there are some FTUs that are misleading (to put it nicely) wanna be pilots. An educational package recently arrived at our local school stating that thousands of pilot are needed over the next five years. What garbage!
I feel badly for the low time pilots; there must be a lot of them out there. We receive an overwhelming number of resumes. I try and answer all electronic resume submissions and make on honest effort to point out something positive within the resume. . . but we do not hire them.
The way our company is set up I need all pilots to be able to get into any given a/c PIC. (we run single VFR - multi IFR also contract requirement come into play) I do not believe in ramp work. After 2 years of ramping I really don't want to have them flying our a/c. The rust is thick by this time. Our hiring priority is local pilots first, then pilots from the surrounding areas, always recommended by word of mouth. Our pilot turn over is next to nil. We did hire one fella, years ago, we didn't know him or get a recommendation on him from someone we knew prior to hiring him. That was a disaster.
As for flight instructing - I give the instructor credit for half the instructing time. Good way to build time but real experience it is not.
Float work - I assess this as my biggest risk. I'm very particular as to who does our float work. Ultimately it will be someone with local knowledge, and someone we have known for some time. At one time I read on this forum that float pilots should be assessed on the number of take-offs and landings rather than their hours. What a great idea, it made so much sense. We are now using this as a guideline.
Not wanting to be negative but just sharing what it is like in our little part of the world. If I could give any advise at all, I'd repeat what many here have already said.. . . Investigate the job market for new pilots prior to entering into training. Don't take other peoples word for it. They are trying to sell you the training.
Good luck to all those looking for work this season.
Fly safe.
Re: New guy - appalled
Hey There new guy,
This is a tough industry make no mistakes about it! I was just like you at first, I was fed the usual BS from flight schools about a pilot shortage and an excess of jobs, I even read one article that stated (printed in 2005) by 2010 there will be 3 jobs to every pilot blah blah blah. This is a load of crap, PERIOD. I can't stand the FTU's that pump that crap down the throats of new pilots on the first day of ground school or right after the intro flight when they have just had that wonderful feeling of the first flight. It's wrong and it should stop.
My situation was like yours after one year of sending out resumes and getting thanks but no thanks on the telephone I opted for the Instructors rating, even though at the time I thought I was worth so much more and teaching was so beneath me. I ate it up and did it, To my surprise, It wasn't that bad, I was lucky I had a great mentor who showed me the ropes and I loved every minute of learning to teach and then the actual teaching itself. I made a lot of great friends and have kept contact with them still to this day. I learn't a hell of a lot from my experience and it gave me very valuable insight into this crazy thing we all love called aviation.
Now even though sometimes I remember having bad days like opening a paycheck to discover I couldn't pay my rent because it was november and the clouds were at 300ft for 3 weeks, I got through it. Now all that being said I got my all important first job and moved on.
Then I found myself with my first lay off, that was one of my worst days. I never fully bounced back from that, at that time I had a house and a wife I had to make a decision, I went on the road and started to work for the first place that would hire me, they were not like my previous employer, they were pretty much of the attitude that sleep was not part of the contract and one day after falling asleep at the wheel on my way home after being awake for close to 20hours and a 17hr extented duty day, I threw in the towel and went home to take a non flying job. That was my decision not everyone would do the same, it was a personal decision, it has been almost 8 months since then. I have recently decided to go back to flying but I will be more careful who I work for.
The point of my ramble is that starting our teaching especially in CYHU (quite a few schools) could be a great start and a great memory down the road of eager students great fellow instructors and who knows you might actually like it. I will never regret my decision to get the Instructors rating. some of my best times were spent there.
Best of Luck to you!! and remember this
"The worst day of flying still beats the best day of ordinary work"
This is a tough industry make no mistakes about it! I was just like you at first, I was fed the usual BS from flight schools about a pilot shortage and an excess of jobs, I even read one article that stated (printed in 2005) by 2010 there will be 3 jobs to every pilot blah blah blah. This is a load of crap, PERIOD. I can't stand the FTU's that pump that crap down the throats of new pilots on the first day of ground school or right after the intro flight when they have just had that wonderful feeling of the first flight. It's wrong and it should stop.
My situation was like yours after one year of sending out resumes and getting thanks but no thanks on the telephone I opted for the Instructors rating, even though at the time I thought I was worth so much more and teaching was so beneath me. I ate it up and did it, To my surprise, It wasn't that bad, I was lucky I had a great mentor who showed me the ropes and I loved every minute of learning to teach and then the actual teaching itself. I made a lot of great friends and have kept contact with them still to this day. I learn't a hell of a lot from my experience and it gave me very valuable insight into this crazy thing we all love called aviation.
Now even though sometimes I remember having bad days like opening a paycheck to discover I couldn't pay my rent because it was november and the clouds were at 300ft for 3 weeks, I got through it. Now all that being said I got my all important first job and moved on.
Then I found myself with my first lay off, that was one of my worst days. I never fully bounced back from that, at that time I had a house and a wife I had to make a decision, I went on the road and started to work for the first place that would hire me, they were not like my previous employer, they were pretty much of the attitude that sleep was not part of the contract and one day after falling asleep at the wheel on my way home after being awake for close to 20hours and a 17hr extented duty day, I threw in the towel and went home to take a non flying job. That was my decision not everyone would do the same, it was a personal decision, it has been almost 8 months since then. I have recently decided to go back to flying but I will be more careful who I work for.
The point of my ramble is that starting our teaching especially in CYHU (quite a few schools) could be a great start and a great memory down the road of eager students great fellow instructors and who knows you might actually like it. I will never regret my decision to get the Instructors rating. some of my best times were spent there.
Best of Luck to you!! and remember this
"The worst day of flying still beats the best day of ordinary work"
Re: New guy - appalled
It does?"The worst day of flying still beats the best day of ordinary work"
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Challenger
- Rank 0
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:50 pm
Re: New guy - appalled
Sounds familiar. I had loads of debt after flight school that my part time waiter job couldn't dream of paying back. I was 23 and without a clue as to how to start my flying career. I had 223.6 (lol) hours and no one in my city wanted to hire me.
There were definitely some sleepless nights wondering if I would ever be able to pay back my loans. And after a year of no leads, It was only natural for me to consider what the hell was going on here in my career.
But, this process is aviations way of cleaning out the non believers. HAH!
I soon got my start in a small town fuelling for a great company and learning the ropes from the ground up. I was hired due to my experience fuelling at an FBO in my hometown city. They liked that experience and that FBO rampy experience got me the job. Now I am a King Air captain with time on C206s, 185's, and Navajos as well.
Now for some tough love buddy: RAMP WORK IS NOT A BULLSHIT POSITION. Ground Ops are just as important as Flight ops for a safe operation. And having been where your at now, I can say that pilots know absolutely NOTHING about anything when they start. I wouldn't hire a 200 hour wonder to fly a plane right away, I want to know they have there head on straight before I risk my business. My advice... go get a ramp job and learn about your future career from the ground up. Ramp work is your learnig grounds and its part of the process of becoming a pilot in Canada.
I wish you good luck. If you stick to it you will succeed.
There were definitely some sleepless nights wondering if I would ever be able to pay back my loans. And after a year of no leads, It was only natural for me to consider what the hell was going on here in my career.
But, this process is aviations way of cleaning out the non believers. HAH!
I soon got my start in a small town fuelling for a great company and learning the ropes from the ground up. I was hired due to my experience fuelling at an FBO in my hometown city. They liked that experience and that FBO rampy experience got me the job. Now I am a King Air captain with time on C206s, 185's, and Navajos as well.
Now for some tough love buddy: RAMP WORK IS NOT A BULLSHIT POSITION. Ground Ops are just as important as Flight ops for a safe operation. And having been where your at now, I can say that pilots know absolutely NOTHING about anything when they start. I wouldn't hire a 200 hour wonder to fly a plane right away, I want to know they have there head on straight before I risk my business. My advice... go get a ramp job and learn about your future career from the ground up. Ramp work is your learnig grounds and its part of the process of becoming a pilot in Canada.
I wish you good luck. If you stick to it you will succeed.
Re: New guy - appalled
Thanks for the walls of text guys 
Well, I've decided to go ahead and get my instructor rating. I figured that instead of just waiting around, sending resumes that don't get anywhere I might as well start building up some hours now. Who knows.... 
Well, I've decided to go ahead and get my instructor rating. I figured that instead of just waiting around, sending resumes that don't get anywhere I might as well start building up some hours now. Who knows.... Re: New guy - appalled
I'll give you my take on instructing. I started flying in the late 70's, commercial in the early 80's. There was no work to be had for any pilots then. I gave up the dream and pursued a millwright apprenticship. I still did some flying, but for 15 years stayed in the trade. In my mid 30's I decided to do my instructor rating and try to find part time work instructing and keep my full time job. It took me 2 years to find work instructing and I'm still at it. However a few years ago I managed to get on with one of the major cargo companies through the help of another instructor who was also working there. I am now an F/O on a 727 in my mid 40's and love every minute of it. I targeted specific companies when looking for full time work in the industry and made many contacts through instructing. I was also able to get another instructor a job with this same company.
Instructing can get you the contacts you need to get somewhere in this industry. One thing I've learned is you will need help to get your foot in the door. I always tell young students to have some sort of backup work choices as this may not be a stable carreer. I still instruct because I enjoy it. Unfortunately I watch a lot of full time guys burn out long before the industry has it's turnarounds and starts the hiring again. Keep a second job if possable.
Instructing can get you the contacts you need to get somewhere in this industry. One thing I've learned is you will need help to get your foot in the door. I always tell young students to have some sort of backup work choices as this may not be a stable carreer. I still instruct because I enjoy it. Unfortunately I watch a lot of full time guys burn out long before the industry has it's turnarounds and starts the hiring again. Keep a second job if possable.
