• Best Aircraft Type for Bird Dogging?

Posted: **Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:02 pm**

upon reading into it more the 9+ hour endurance assumes you shut down 1 engine so it would probably be less since you would probably want to have both of them working when you are low level

Posted: **Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:19 pm**

A little but of a lag in posting, BUT -

Duckie, the Queen Air lead WAS phased out. They are indeed Beech 90s. And, the pilots love them.

I wouldn't mind flying a 90 birddogging myself

Posted: **Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:51 pm**

Found this - not mine but shamelessly stolen from another site:

Posted: **Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:00 pm**

fish4life wrote:how are the Cessna 310's with Manitoba uses? getting old and hard to find the 100LL?
Turbine baron conversions probably wouldn't have the endurance ?

still in the production stages but how about something like the Dornier Seastar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Seawings_Seastar
http://www.dornierseaplane.com/content/seastar

It seems like it would be a good all around bird dogger to compliment the CL-215/415's since they are also amfibs and could dock up and get gas when there isn't runways around. It says it has a 9 hour endurance as well.

I'm not a water bomber pilot or bird dogger but have always seem them and thought it would be a wicked job although I never did get the float time that I'd need to be able to do it.

The 310s work really well for us - they outrun the 215s on a dispatch, have great visibility, can carry tons of gas, are reasonably cheap to operate, and work ok for crew transfers. On the downside, they are getting a little long in the tooth, 100ll isn't a problem yet - and the tankers run on it, so one's not moving without the other; despite recent efforts to the contrary, on hot days, because of all the windows, they are really warm inside.
Our first 415 will be online next season, so it will be interesting to see if it works well with the 310.

Posted: **Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:57 pm**

Thanks north shore, I'll sure miss the sound of the big radials on the 215's starting up every spring as the maint in winnipeg is getting them ready for another fire season

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:56 pm**

xsbank wrote:Found this - not mine but shamelessly stolen from another site:

Not quite a 215! Location happens to be the MNR Tanker Base in Chapleau, Ontario....

Posted: **Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:51 am**

The highest airport in Ontario, in case you didn't know. I always say that when people mention Chapleau. It makes me sound like a genius.

And Moosonee is tied with Attawapiskat for the lowest.

Posted: **Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:28 pm**

The highest point in Ontario is quite a ways from YLD

http://www.ottertooth.com/Temagami/Sites/mapleht.htm

With the creation of the federal 1:50,000 series topographical maps, and the printing of the 41P/7 map in 1970, the highest peak on Ishpatina Ridge came to the attention of cartographers. It was measured by contour lines at 686 metres (2,250 feet). By 1974, it was revised to 693 metres (2,275 feet)***. It hasn't been overtaken.

Posted: **Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:53 pm**

What about a Caravan?

Posted: **Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:56 pm**

Cause if NO because of single engine..... what about the monkey flying a FireBoss....

Posted: **Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:25 pm**

Conair uses the 'van...

Posted: **Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:17 am**

Now that Manitoba has 415's, what are they using for bird dogs?

Are you in the same boat as us if you are still using the 310?

Anyone know how the Citation worked out in BC? I would imagine she's a thirsty bird...

Posted: **Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:28 pm**

We're still using the 310s. I think that will be the case for quite some time, too.
In practice the 310 almost always gets away first, and then even if they do get passed by the tankers en-route, we still have to figure out which lake to use, so it pretty much comes out equal. If we are doing really long dispatches (YTH-YIV, say) then it might become an issue, but for the majority of cases, it's OK.

Posted: **Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:50 am**

Gasoline supplies and tanking has become a problem; Airspray has been using a Slowtation for 20 years.
I liked a 690 but a jet would be nicer...

Posted: **Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:49 pm**

For Bird Dogging, the choice is obvious. You need something that can outrun the Citation X, um, er CL415. But, at low level the rough air penetration speed on the mighty 90 is about 150 knots. There goes the speed advantage over a AC 500 or a C310. This, and the nacelle on the 90 gets in the way. Piss poor side vis. The Caravan has the best vis of the mentioned group, but while they can use clapped out C337's for detection, they simply MUST have two engines for bird dogs.
Well, without any further ado, I give you the future bird dog......

Any questions?

Posted: **Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:23 pm**

Yes, what's the bond, or if I buy a PPC and 500hrs at EagleJet, can I get on one sooner?

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:29 pm**

In practice the 310 almost always gets away first, and then even if they do get passed by the tankers en-route

I NEVER get passed! Okay maybe just once, but never after that....oh, then there was that time... Dammit!

Back to the thread;

No one seemed to jump on the Cheyenne idea as a bird-dog. Ive never flown one but they seem to be a good mix of speed, size and visibility. As long as it had long range tanks for a 4 hour mission down low sucking up the Jet A.

Just give me some air conditioning please, I'm begging....

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:39 pm**

Bisset in October 2011

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:56 pm**

Obviously you must be new at Birddoging H&B.. everyone knows that you never look out the left window!

Oh yeah, you keep getting passed because you're in 192!

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2013 5:53 am**

Your right North Shore the Bronco is every "doggers" wet dream.

Patty Wagstaff flies a Bronco for Cal Fire. She had a pic on her FB page a couple days ago holding a sign that said "Will fly for sex." She must have seen your post DR.

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2013 6:37 am**

I flew C337 for The Flying Fireman in 1984 and C310 for Airspray in 1986 and this sure looks like a much nicer machine for the job:

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2013 1:35 pm**

vstrom wrote:Obviously you must be new at Birddoging H&B.. everyone knows that you never look out the left window!

Oh yeah, you keep getting passed because you're in 192!

The mighty c310 heavy aka BD192 will not be vanquished by your petty digs there Vstrom.
Turning and looking left just comes natural when your from the Left Coast...
Besides 3 left turns make a right

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2013 1:37 pm**

This would be kinda cool to...

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2013 2:52 pm**

Love the idea of hovering over the target area... 3, 2, 1, drop now!!!

Did some work as HELCO out in BC a few years ago. Flew sun up to sundown while dogging multiple bucket brigades and loved the viz with all that plexiglass. Even used dry erase marker on the inside of the bubble windows to record call signs etc... Only drawback for dogging a tanker would be duration overhead the fire... but with long range tanks it might work. Cost per hour is likely the most restrictive feature of operating a helidog. Still an AAO can dream... Broncos helidogs!!!

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2013 8:10 am**

Doc wrote:For Bird Dogging, the choice is obvious.
Well, without any further ado, I give you the future bird dog......

Any questions?

May also be used for a low level torch for firebreaks

Best Aircraft Type for Bird Dogging?

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