Hate Comes to Orange County

[Hedley]

I’ve never seen a Glen Beck progrom

Can we have a pogrom to get rid of Glenn Beck? Politically, I'm 8 pts to the right of Attilla the Hun, but I just can't stand Glenn Beck. He is an idiot rivalling perhaps only Geraldo Rivera in his silly years in the 1980's.

[High and Behind]

Are you really this obtuse? I live in a society which has been formed by Judeo Christian values, even though most liberals are too dim to notice. Most of our important common law principals came from those ideals. But I do not need to believe in God, and Christians will not demand that I do. Muslims, on the other hand .. take a brief look around the world. All cultures are not equal; all religions are not the same...P.S. I’ve never seen a Glen Beck progrom...Promise.

Okay so sorry for the Glen Beck shot that was a bit cheap.

And as a "moderate" I know exactly where our socio-economic and political system comes from, so lay off on the liberals are idiots crap. And I won't call you a redneck. Agreed?

All I'm saying is that you seem to be vilifying an entire race of people for the sake of the few that are, yes, extremists. Our society is rampent with examples of the same extremism. So we are not the poster child of morality that some people think we are.

And I dissagree, all religions are the same. They have all produced some sort of violent conflict in the name of itself. Including the Christians of late.
Include the 911 attack. More Americans have killed fellow Americans in the name of religion than any other race or religion.

There are plenty of moderate Muslims/Arabs out there, just like there are moderate westerners (for lack of a better term) They just arnet news worthy.

[Hedley]

I won't call you a redneck

What's wrong with being a "redneck"?

Redneck literally implies a person of British or northern European ancestry that does not live in a city, but instead resides in a rural area, and gets some exposure to sunlight, and due to genetically fair skin, sunburns easily.

I'm a person of British ancestry that does not live in a city, but instead resides in a rural area, and gets some exposure to sunlight, and due to genetically fair skin, I sunburn easily. I have to be careful to put sunblock on my nose, ears and neck when I am in the sun, to avoid getting badly sunburned, as I have in the past, which is quite hard on your skin.

I am literally a redneck. I am not ashamed of being a person of British ancestry. I am not ashamed that I do not live in a cesspool of a city. I am not ashamed that I get some exposure to sunlight, and I am not ashamed that due to my genetically fair skin, I sunburn easily.

Why on earth should I be ashamed that I am a redneck? Ok, I am not a chic, trendy, left-wing urban person of colour of indeterminate and/or confused sexuality that hangs out in Starbucks. I can live with that reality.

[High and Behind]

Hedley

Am I correct in thinking that your tongue was firmly planted in cheek or did I offend you.

No offense intended.

[Hedley]

You did not offend me!

I wear the label of "redneck" with a certain amount of pride, as peculiar as that may seem to you. I have many good friends in Alabama, Georgia and Florida that I am sure you would consider a redneck, if you ever met them!



You certainly don't know who the redneck is in the middle, but he designed one of the finest biplanes ever built, despite not even being an engineer! He's dead now, of course, but if one of you urbane folks asked him if he was a "redneck", I'm pretty sure I know what his answer would be!



Yup, rednecks everywhere. This one has an aircraft of his design in the Smithsonian, unlike most Starbucks dwellers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Pitts

These "rednecks" have mountains of character and integrity, and I might add they don't run to the Feds telling tall tales, to screw their fellow pilots, either.

[High and Behind]

I know exactly who Curtis Pitts is. I have not met the man but saw him at Oshkosh in 1979 when my father and I were there. And just so you know Charlie Hilliard was one of my hero's. Loved the Red Devils.
My former chief pilot and good friend was a member of the Carling team flying Pitts Specials. For which I'm sure you are familiar. When my family went to fly-ins where they performed I would tell everyone around what the maneuvers were that they were performing....I was 4 years old...and sun burnt.

And it would seem that you are insinuating by the "urbane" comment that I look down my nose at "rednecks"?

Well I hate to tell you but I grew up on 100 acres. And shoveled out the horses every morning before walking to school. The town down the road had 300 people in it. If I walked out my back door and didn't stop I would have to walk 40 miles to hit the next road or person.

My father is a homebuilder just like CP. Cuts all his own firewood still at 73.
Oh and I hate Starbucks. And drive a pickup. And Plaid is my fabric of choice.
And after 17 years in the industry I still fly in the bush.

So after all that what I'm trying to say is that we have more in common than you think.

Oh and I just bought a 5th wheel
And I have 3 cords of wood piled in my driveway under a tarp. Who in there right mind needs 3 cords of wood in Victoria? I just can't get that, What if the power goes out thinking out of my head from those days on the farm.

[Shiny Side Up]

Redneck literally implies a person of British or northern European ancestry that does not live in a city, but instead resides in a rural area, and gets some exposure to sunlight, and due to genetically fair skin, sunburns easily.

Technically being classified as a "red neck" has one other ingredient and that being a person who makes their living by some sort of manual labour. The term originating from when wearing a hat was far more popular amongst the male working class - partly because they were stylish at the time, partly for their sun blocking functionality - so despite wearing a hat one might still get a fair ammount of exposure in the region of one's neck being bent over whichever implement one might be working on at such time. At first such a term almost was strictly relegated to those engaged in agricultural labour, but was later extended to include those who partook in all sorts of out door labour. Being of rural stock, I know of at least a dozen tunes to be played upon a guitar or banjo (alternatively an accordion) which lament this fact and sometimes the ability to wash said neck, all of which well predate the era of modern country music to which most would attribute their "red neck" association to.

Its original use was almost always derogatory since there has always been an association with doing manual labour and a lack of education, wealth or both. In particular, "rednecks" were whites who toiled in fields who didn't own their own slaves and class-wise were amongst the very poor.

[High and Behind]

I am familiar with the origins of the term.

And have obviously struck a chord here that was not intended to be offending. And although it has been stated that I did not offend, I would say by the passion of the posts that I have.

So I humbly apologize and retract my statement of the offending term. And will not post further on the topic


With Respect
H&B

[Shiny Side Up]

No offense taken or given. The term is merely used incorrectly often by those who intend to use it in a derogatory manner, and now often used as an identifying badge by those who are accurately described by it, much like many such terms have become. Suffice to say: "That's our word!"

edit: By definition I was mostly pointing out that while some of his friends might qualify as being true "rednecks" Hedley - from class, educational and vocational - does not, though he may identify with traditional redneck political leanings.

[JakeYYZ]

Are you really this obtuse? I live in a society which has been formed by Judeo Christian values, even though most liberals are too dim to notice. Most of our important common law principals came from those ideals. But I do not need to believe in God, and Christians will not demand that I do. Muslims, on the other hand .. take a brief look around the world. All cultures are not equal; all religions are not the same...P.S. I’ve never seen a Glen Beck progrom...Promise.

Okay so sorry for the Glen Beck shot that was a bit cheap.

And as a "moderate" I know exactly where our socio-economic and political system comes from, so lay off on the liberals are idiots crap. And I won't call you a redneck. Agreed?

All I'm saying is that you seem to be vilifying an entire race of people for the sake of the few that are, yes, extremists. Our society is rampent with examples of the same extremism. So we are not the poster child of morality that some people think we are.

And I dissagree, all religions are the same. They have all produced some sort of violent conflict in the name of itself. Including the Christians of late.
Include the 911 attack. More Americans have killed fellow Americans in the name of religion than any other race or religion.

There are plenty of moderate Muslims/Arabs out there, just like there are moderate westerners (for lack of a better term) They just arnet news worthy.

I don't think I was focused solely on "terrorist attacks" at all. I am addressing, what I and many view, as the cultural and religious incompatibility. But speaking of terrorist attacks, we'd sure as hell likely have had a whole lot more of them were it not for the boatload of money spent on anti-terrorism law enforcement, which, of course, detrimentally affects all of our civil liberties. And we nonetheless unthinkingly spend all of this money and lose all of these liberties in the service of multiculturalism when some inexpensive immigration exclusions would work much better. (BTW, ‘muslim’ is not a race.)

And I dissagree, all religions are the same. They have all produced some sort of violent conflict in the name of itself. Including the Christians of late.

Obviously this is an unwise contention. No Christians are perpetrating acts of terror throughout the world. No Hindus are blowing up trains in Spain. No Jews are fostering suicide bombings in England or the United States. No Buddhists have flown jetliners into high-rise buildings. Islam is responsible for the bulk of the world's acts of terror.
So, let’s start with the principle that any religion that does not allow freedom of conscience and freedom of speech is not a legitimate religion but rather an intolerant, supremacist, totalitarian, political ideology. Of course by not allowing I mean requires the killing of people who exercise or attempt to exercise these fundamental human rights.

[azimuthaviation]

So what exactly are these Judeo Christian values upheld in our society?

First of all lets start with the term judeo-christian values. If you think that Judean and Christian values are the same perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the first 1950 years of the last 2000 years.

Then please answer me if Judean Christian values are compatible with an open democratic society why is the foremost important prerequisite to every democracy the separation of church and state?

Tell me about the rights and freedoms in North America. Abortion, gay marriage, gay rights, sexual freedoms, what is the opinion of the clergy on these issues? (keep in mind some of us know whats going on)

Why do christians not want evolution taught in schools? why isprayer not allowed in schools?

In Canada we are allowed a free market, free speech, open deomacracy. Are those guaranteed anywhere in the first or second testaments?

Jesus was the king of kings, David, Solomon, Jacob, Isaac Herod were also kings in an era when demmocracy already existed. There were no bi cameral legislatures and term limited premierships in the bible so why is democracy a christian value?

In canada woman are allowed to vote, they got the vote in 1927. What was it in the first 1927 years of christianity that we didnt know about women that was discovered then that changed things? was a new scripture discovered?


I know what the sufrage movement did for women, what the anti abolitionists did for slaves, what the soccialists did for nationalism and universal health care. What did the church ever do to further womens right? Or human rights? The church has been struggling to keep pace with the values of free humans for the last several hundred years. To give them credit for the freedoms that people fought and struggled and died for and call those judean christian values is an outrage you make me sick

[Beefitarian]

I'd say if we're riding a bubble of luxury that's caused by oil making the industrial machine run no one is going to come down as hard as western women.

If everyone's back on a farm without electricity I suspect things will suddenly be back to having other things to worry about than voting and getting a university degree in, "Anything you can do, I can do better."

I you still think you're "equal" get out there with the livestock and plough then later we can take some tools and build a shelter before winter comes or you can make a good meal for the men who are providing ingredients and a safe place to prepare them.

[Moose47]

Perhaps Jarrah it is time to pack your worldly possessions and head go back to Lebanon. It is painfully obvious, at least to me that you are not adjusting very well to western culture. Hey, when you get home you could open up a shop and sell manaeesh and shwarmas on Manara Street. Sure feels nice to have the breeze coming off the water. Helps keep the flies down too. Just think of the spectacular view you will have when the Israelis attack you from the sea next time.

'Semper Fi'

Callsign: Delta Two-Niner

[azimuthaviation]

Oh Im sure Ill be here a lot longer than you will old man

[Hedley]

Im sure Ill be here a lot longer

Why would you want to be some place where you obviously hate the majority of citizens? I can't imagine that would be very pleasant for you.

All that hatred and anger that you have ...

[Beefitarian]

All that hatred and anger that you have ...

[azimuthaviation]

Im sure Ill be here a lot longer

Why would you want to be some place where you obviously hate the majority of citizens? I can't imagine that would be very pleasant for you.

All that hatred and anger that you have ...

Ahh you see for you its obvious because you have the need to over simplify things so you can understand them. Someone more intelligent than you may not be able to categorize me or "the majority of citizens" tha easily. But whatever works. For you. Ill leave you to be the judge of how far that got you n life.

[Hedley]

Ill leave you to be the judge of how far that got you n life

Doing ok so far:

[2R]

You could make some money with that boat getting fence jumpers and illegals past border guards

[niss]

Perhaps Jarrah it is time to pack your worldly possessions and head go back to Lebanon. It is painfully obvious, at least to me that you are not adjusting very well to western culture. Hey, when you get home you could open up a shop and sell manaeesh and shwarmas on Manara Street. Sure feels nice to have the breeze coming off the water. Helps keep the flies down too. Just think of the spectacular view you will have when the Israelis attack you from the sea next time.

'Semper Fi'

Callsign: Delta Two-Niner

Your personal beef with AA aside on this one he is absolutely right. We talk about the backwards Muslims who 'hate' their women, yet it was not until the 1920s here that women were even legally considered people.

Every scripture spouting asshole like in the Westboro church for example are right. It actually says these things in the bible. Some of us are just smart enough to filter it out for what it is and others aren't, but it does not change what is written and what these Judeao-Christo values are.

Like I said in a previous thread, apparently Lot, being the only righteous person worth saving in Soddom, had no problem pimping his virgin daughters out to get gang raped because this was less offensive then homosexuality.

The church (whichever denomination you want) has not had a reputation of being progressive, and forward thinking. It took 2000 years for the Church to change its position on Jews being responsible for Christ's death, this alone has caused more deaths due to Christian persecution than modern terrorism.

[Beefitarian]

I doubt the world was much worse for all North American women pre 1920s. For many trying to be part of the work place even up to today might be worse, certainly it would be in the 1960s which is basically a full generation after they became "persons".

You don't think the story meant, Lot knew they were angels and was acting irrationally out of fear that God might be upset if he just sent them out to let the town ride them? He wasn't bothering to offer up his daughters before the mob came over to greet his "guests" was he?

Why should the Westboro people assign themselves to police fags and military losses? There's a difference between helping out and standing around with an offensive sign looking for attention. It also says sometimes you need to go to church and kill a bird. I don't think they are so keen on obeying biblical law unless it suits them.

All 12 disciples were Jews, the few times he even spoke to non-Jews are a pretty big deal. Didn't the church (whichever denomination you want) have to overlook that to blame the Jews?

I'm not saying your observation that many jumped in with those causes never happened. I'm saying anyone that did couldn't be thinking it through. Do you really count "the citizens allong for the ride"?

[niss]

I doubt the world was much worse for all North American women pre 1920s. For many trying to be part of the work place even up to today might be worse, certainly it would be in the 1960s which is basically a full generation after they became "persons".

I don't Follow

You don't think the story meant, Lot knew they were angels and was acting irrationally out of fear that God might be upset if he just sent them out to let the town ride them? He wasn't bothering to offer up his daughters before the mob came over to greet his "guests" was he?

Either way, my point was that he was heralded as a righteous fellow after the fact despite his obvious by todays standards, moral misdeed.

Why should the Westboro people assign themselves to police fags and military losses? There's a difference between helping out and standing around with an offensive sign looking for attention. It also says sometimes you need to go to church and kill a bird. I don't think they are so keen on obeying biblical law unless it suits them.

Whole heartily agree, my point was that you can't discredit them as flat out wrong when they are quoting scripture word for word. You may disagree with their interpretation but their position is well founded. I wrote this to show that backwards mentality and following religious scripts that are offensive are not unique to Islam.

All 12 disciples were Jews, the few times he even spoke to non-Jews are a pretty big deal. Didn't the church (whichever denomination you want) have to overlook that to blame the Jews?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

I dare you to find one example here that displays any sort of rationality.

[Beefitarian]

I doubt the world was much worse for all North American women pre 1920s. For many trying to be part of the work place even up to today might be worse, certainly it would be in the 1960s which is basically a full generation after they became "persons".

I don't Follow

I actually enjoy cooking some nice food for my family and friends. Sometimes I don't mind cleaning the house so I can have a clean area. Being a home maker is difficult because it's nearly 24/7 even though my wife comes home to help I don't get to punch out and go for a beer. However, I also do what ever I want within reason. I'm sure for many pre-person women it was the same.

As far as getting to vote, I know more people that don't bother than the ones that enjoy the right. The few that do vote are certainly more vocal about it but being allowed to vote is no prize for most.

Being happy isn't as dependant on you and your government declaring me "legal status as a person" as you might think. I can be happy with my family either way. Conversly there's still women's shelters, legal persons can't find the time to look after their home and kids. Being allowed to work and voting isn't making life wonderfull. Just because there's been tons of change on paper, it's not eutopia yet. I'd say future generations are more likely to go backwards on some of these thing than forward. Tough to say for sure, until they get there.

[niss]

I doubt the world was much worse for all North American women pre 1920s. For many trying to be part of the work place even up to today might be worse, certainly it would be in the 1960s which is basically a full generation after they became "persons".

I don't Follow

I actually enjoy cooking some nice food for my family and friends. Sometimes I don't mind cleaning the house so I can have a clean area. Being a home maker is difficult because it's nearly 24/7 even though my wife comes home to help I don't get to punch out and go for a beer. However, I also do what ever I want within reason. I'm sure for many pre-person women it was the same.

As far as getting to vote, I know more people that don't bother than the ones that enjoy the right. The few that do vote are certainly more vocal about it but being allowed to vote is no prize for most.

Being happy isn't as dependant on you and your government declaring me "legal status as a person" as you might think. I can be happy with my family either way. Conversly there's still women's shelters, legal persons can't find the time to look after their home and kids. Being allowed to work and voting isn't making life wonderfull. Just because there's been tons of change on paper, it's not eutopia yet. I'd say future generations are more likely to go backwards on some of these thing than forward. Tough to say for sure, until they get there.

But that had nothing to do with my point. I brought that up because our treatment of women in the west isn't as perfect as we would like to think it is.

For every heinous act those scary Muslims make, western society has already done.

[Beefitarian]

Right but you brought up the past and it read like you felt it was much worse. I think in many ways it could have been better.

The last part may certainly read "the government" declaring... I'm not trying to implicate you niss. It's really our government but that doesn't fit for my concept of someone else making a decision to create or change another person's title. Specifically while I used myself as the "non-legal person" example.

Yeah I don't think any one society has a decent monopoly or even a really good lead over another in oppresion of some of it's population. I must admit I like the option to wander into a shelter and live better than many working people in the rest of the world and some here. Not to paint an overly pleasant picture of the shelters system but in some ways they are.