This forum is for non aviation related topics, political debate, random thoughts, and everything else that just doesn't seem to fit in the normal forums. ALL FORUM RULES STILL APPLY.
Slats wrote:Clearly not everyone commenting is well-informed of the rules. The double-minor penalty you are refering to is for high-sticking resulting in an injury. A clean hit should draw no penalty. An illegal hit such as boarding, charging, etc is a five minute major penalty, not a two minute minor. Also, certain penalties come with automatic fines, although they are ridiculously low.
Guilty as charged, as I've not watched Hockey seriously since the strike, and the rules may have changed. But what you say illustrates my point.
High-sticking resulting in a injury = double minor. OK.
What about high-sticking not resulting in a injury? minor or nothing??
That is my point - the fact someone got injured shoudl not be a factor - the penalty should be the same regardless.
At the end of the day, if you don't like the way the game is played, don't watch. No need to piss and moan on the internet and try to ruin it for the millions of fans that love the game.
I don't, and the sport lost itself a fan. If I want to watch a fight, I'll watch boxing or MMA or something. You can play hard without resorting to violence when things don't go your way.
He took huge amounts of abuse from goons that repeatedly went uncalled by the refs
Finally, someone admits the problem. The NHL might not want to admit it, but they get much higher ratings - and much more money - with the status quo, which is the resulting fights from refs not calling penalties.
I can't believe people here thinks it's a great idea for players to get seriously injured with concussions - injuries for life - just to make the NHL rich.
Maybe the fans been hit one too many times in the head, too. Or, they just enjoy the gore. EDITED
Maybe the self proclaimed hockey experts here can shed some light on the Chara hit last night on Max Pacioretty? If that is just "part of the game" I'd (edit)say(edit) the game is b*llshit.
Oops, spelling
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Last edited by pika on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At the end of the day, if you don't like the way the game is played, don't watch. No need to piss and moan on the internet and try to ruin it for the millions of fans that love the game.
The problem here is that the league doesn't realise how many fans its losing with the violence as it is. Its bad for business. If MLB, the NBA and the NFL accepted this kind of violence they'd be sunk. Hockey right now is the bottom dog of all the professional sports and they haven't clued in yet that this is a good part of that problem. I still watch hockey, but I find it more and more difficult to stick with it because I find myself turning it off the more I see it. I used to additionally frequently go to watch minor hockey games and various junior league games, but have been turned off of that due to the increased imitation of what goes on in the NHL. I was always disappointed when it broke out during when I played, but its easy to see that the frequency of the violence has increased since then and to a lower level of hockey.
Keep in mind that this is coming from a guy who lived for, (and still would if I could afford to play hit hockey and hold a job) catching someone foolish enough to take a pass between their own legs. But even I know enough that there's a time and a place to deliver a hit. If you're hitting someone who doesn't have or has already given up the puck, you're wasting your time and taking yourself out of the play. You see guys do this all the time in the NHL. A good clean hit is one that also turns over the play and switches the momentum of the game in your favor. those have become rarities in the highlight reels these days.
pika wrote:Maybe the self proclaimed hockey experts here can shed some light on the Chara hit last night on Max Pacioretty? If that is just "part of the game" I'd same the game is b*llshit.
That hit should result in a lengthy suspension; it should, but it won't. Chara and his supporters can claim that he's not a dirty player and it was accidental, and his history would seem to bear that out. But the simple fact of the matter is that you are responsible for your actions on the ice and there's no way he didn't know that stanchion was there. I've never played a game where I didn't know where I was since my very first season when I was eight. If I've always known where I was, a player with vastly more experience like Chara has no excuse. The fact that his disciplinary hearing is being done by conference call by the NHL's rules mean the suspension, if any, will be short; probably no more than two games for a hit that could have resulted in criminal negligence causing death charges. Make no mistake about it, that comes as close as you're likely to see to an on ice fatality.
Another NHL sacrifice on the altar of blood lust for the mouth breathers.
The NHL should be renamed the NVL - the National Violence League, because that's what it delivers. The hockey has become an unimportant sideshow - it's just filler between the gratuitous violence which the crowd comes to see.
Apparently people are clogging the police emergency phone numbers demanding that Chara be charged as a result of the play. He's lucky he didn't do that in Ontario not so many years ago. When Roy McMurtry was attorney general Chara would have left the rink in handcuffs looking at assault causing bodily harm charges. Just ask Dino Ciccarelli.
Hedley wrote:I know that there are many people here who greatly approve of the current level of violence in hockey, which I personally think is revolting.
You must be very happy, then, with the problems that NHL hockey players are developing with repeated concussions and long-term brain trauma, not unlike NFL players.
NHL refuses to ban hits to the head over fear that it will strip the physicality from the game. Two headshots, no suspensions, and Sidney Crosby gets headaches for two months.
All part of the game, huh? Have another Timmies
Instead of giving them sticks, how about NHL players are simply armed with machetes and pistols? Why bother with a puck? Wouldn't that drive the crowd wild? Fantastic ratings, too, certainly.
Was Hedley "pussified"? Don Cherry would be rolling in his grave (if he were dead!!)
when I read your post I thought of this. Has she gotten to you??
Secret photo of ISTP's university Strident Feminism (Womyn Edition) 101 professor delivering a lecture on non-contact gender neutral hockey.
ir Canada threatens NHL over headshots
By BRUCE GARRIOCH, QMI Agency
SUNRISE, Fla. -- Air Canada, one of the NHL's largest financial corporate backers, is threatening to withdraw its sponsorship if the league doesn't take "immediate" and "serious" action on headshots, QMI Agency has learned.
In a strongly worded letter addressed to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman on Wednesday, Denis Vandal, Air Canada's director of marketing/communications, expressed concern over recent incidents of headshots and concussions.
The letter came in the wake of Tuesday night's controversial hit by Boston Bruins defenceman Zdeno Chara on Montreal Canadiens forward Max Pacioretty at the Bell Centre. Following a telephone hearing Wednesday with NHL VP Mike Murphy, there was no punishment for Chara.
"We are contacting you (Wednesday) to voice our concern over (Tuesday night's) incident involving Max Pacioretty and Zdeno Chara at the Bell Centre in Montreal," wrote Vandal. "This is following several other incidents involving career-threatening and life-threatening headshots in the NHL recently."
Vandal noted the controversial issue is becoming bad for Air Canada's brand.
"From a corporate social responsibility standpoint, it is becoming increasingly difficult to associate our brand with sports events which could lead to serious and irresponsible accidents; action must be taken by the NHL before we are encountered with a fatality.
"Unless the NHL takes immediate action with serious suspension to the players in question to curtail these life-threatening injuries, Air Canada will withdraw its sponsorship of hockey."
Not only does Air Canada own the naming rights to Toronto's Air Canada Centre, it's believed they're a major corporate sponsor behind all six Canadian teams. Air Canada's head office is also located in Montreal.
Vandal copied all six Canadian NHL governors with his letter.
"As a strong supporter and sponsor of NHL Hockey in Canada and several U.S. cities, Air Canada is very concerned with the state of hockey today," Vandal noted.
"While we support countless sports, arts and community events, we are having difficulty rationalizing our sponsorship of hockey unless the NHL takes responsibily to protect both the players and the integrity of the game."
Vandel isn't the only one concerned.
NHL GMs will meet next week in Boca Raton, Fla. to discuss headshots. They're trying to find a solution to cut down on the number of concussions and bring more respect to the game.
Pittsburgh Penguins superstar Sidney Crosby, the NHL's poster boy, hasn't played in more than two months after suffering a concussion in the Winter Classic on Jan. 1.
A league source said several teams were upset Chara wasn't suspended. The Bruins carry a lot of weight at the league level -- owner Jeremy Jacobs is the chairman of the board.
Murphy wrote in his explanation for letting Chara off that he couldn't find sufficient evidence to call the incident intentional.
"After a thorough review of the video, I can find no basis to impose supplemental discipline. This hit resulted from a play that evolved and then happened very quickly -- with both players skating in the same direction and with Chara attempting to angle his opponent into the boards," said Murphy.
"I could not find any evidence to suggest that, beyond this being a correct call for interference, that Chara targeted the head of his opponent, left his feet or delivered the check in any other manner that could be deemed to be dangerous.
"This was a hockey play that resulted in an injury because of the player colliding with the stanchion and then the ice surface."
Hmm. Looking at the video, it seems pretty clear that Chara had his arm out, blocking Pacioretty from moving his head out of the way. You'd think that a professional player would know exactly where he was on the ice.
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Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
The NFL and CFL have taken a number of steps to prevent player injury. Football at it's very root has a more violent core to the game. It amazes me how few all out brawls actually take place on the grid iron. Now I'm not saying they don't happen because they absolutely do however it is usually met with a lot of fan and media outrage see AJ Gass.
Squaring off to go fist to cuffs should be reserved for sports like boxing and MMA. Hockey should be about speed and finesse.
Frank Gallagher wrote:Hockey should be about speed and finesse.
Yes... but it is also about playing a hard, tough game and being really physical with your opponent. And that's the reason Canada wins at the World Juniors and the World Championships every year. The Euros and Russians don't play nearly as physical a game... the build a game solely on speed and finesse. The U.S. adopted their style of play from the Canadians and who were the Olympic finalists again??
It's a physical game and has risks... just like any other sport. Or any other hobby or career even... you want to change a century old game because a few hockey players are getting concussions every year. They are the ones who choose to play and they are well compensated for their efforts. Let's think about who this is really upsetting... it's the non-hockey fans or the ones who want it to be something different... something it's not. The real fans, the ones who follow the league and watch a game with enthusiasm, love the sport the way it is.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
Looks like the NHL is not worried about what AC does nor doesn't do...
"Air Canada is a great brand, as is the National Hockey League," said Bettman. "And if they decide that they need to do other things with their sponsorship dollars, that is their prerogative, just that it is the prerogative of our clubs that fly on Air Canada to make other arrangements if they don't think Air Canada is not giving them the appropriate level of service."
Chara deserved a lengthy suspension IMO, but it's not up for me to decide. I'm just glad Bettman feels the way he does... sounds like he and the NHL don't give a shit where the sponsor dollars come from or if they come at all. The physical game is here to stay.
On another note, Habs are going for 6 straight wins tonight and are creeping up on the Bruins for the division title. GO HABS!!
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
1. The argument "doing on the ice what you'd go to jail for on the street".
This applies in most sports. Nudging someone's rear bumper at 200 mph to cause them to crash(NASCAR), tackling/hitting someone as hard as you possible can because he caught a ball (CFL/NFL), spiking someone blocking the spot you're trying to get to or throwing a ball at someone's head at 90mph (Baseball). Sports aren't real/normal life and the people playing them for money (lots and lots of money) know that and so SHOULD the general public - fan or not!
2. Football has lots of violence but no fights.
Football also has minutes and minutes of no action between very brief spurts of carefully planned and executed action. The players settle down and there's time to reset and go again. Hockey is almost full-out for each 20 minute period. There's no let up and plays happen on the fly with constant change and reaction.
More to the point, Hedley's doing a good job of stirring it. But what about aerobatics? It's not safe judging by the relatively high number of deaths as a percentage of the pilots who do it. And why would you have to wear a parachute if it was safe? In another post there was an apology before the fact for low level aerobatics over an airfield because it scares people. Maybe the public don't think low level aerobatics are so cool? Blatant disregard for the public's feelings by the same person that contends hockey should change because he and others in the public don't like it. Why do we continue to let these highly skilled pilots put themselves in harm's way doing something that isn't any part of normal aviation?
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“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
Secret photo of ISTP's university Strident Feminism (Womyn Edition) 101 professor delivering a lecture on non-contact gender neutral hockey. [/quote]
Word to the wise when writing a University paper in:
Womyn's Studies- it's all the man's fault
Aboriginal Studies- it's all the white man's fault
Labour Studies- it's all The Man's fault
Don't get me wrong. I'm ALL FOR Girl Power.
Oh yeah, and violence in hockey. You see, sports are created by men to act out on their reproductive tendencies. Most games have ball, puck, whatever going into a net or hole of some sort. The object represents sperm, and the goal area represents the vagina. Hockey sticks represent the erect penis. When there is violence in sport- particularly hockey, it is symptomatic of the repression and violence that women must endure on a daily basis both economically and physically.
sports are created by men to act out on their reproductive tendencies. Most games have ball, puck, whatever going into a net or hole of some sort. The object represents sperm, and the goal area represents the vagina. Hockey sticks represent the erect penis. When there is violence in sport- particularly hockey, it is symptomatic of the repression and violence that women must endure on a daily basis both economically and physically
Author!!! Author!!!
This is exactly the sort of insightful thinking that would make you a better airline pilot than someone without your B.A. Plus the fat cows in HR will highly approve of your attitude.
Hockey players are modern day gladiators that are compensated with A LOT of money to do what they do. Head injuries are a bi-product part of the game. intentional or not. As long as the crowd in modern colosseums demand high level of physical play...The conditions for head injuries to occur will always be set up.
Either way...Julius Caesar-Bettman has to go, or let Rome burn...
So for those of you that believe hockey should be 'boxing on ice'; Are you the same people who go to an air show, or NASCAR, hoping to see an accident?
Brewguy wrote:So for those of you that believe hockey should be 'boxing on ice'; Are you the same people who go to an air show, or NASCAR, hoping to see an accident?
Is this a question for me? If it is, the answer is no.
My question to you is why would you even ask that?
Your comment makes zero sense. It's like asking: Wil you hit your foot with a shovel for my mortgage.
I would suggest that if the game ended after that hit and the Bruins were given a loss and a significant fine these kinds of intentional hits would end. People pay good money to go to these games and would not be happy if it ended in the first period.
Don Cherry would be rolling in his grave (if he were dead!!)
