Eloquently said Cossack. My point exactly. Alot of times I am left with a situation that does not conform to the flow of traffic that I was expecting. May seem great and efficient to the pilot on departure but when handed off to the enroute, but the extra vectors to get you climbing and on course make me scratch my head. Its called fixing or cleaning up someone elses mistakes. The anticipation of aircraft being handed off to you clean and or within the parameters of the departure corridor are not always there. I do not like having to guess what departure is giving me. I don't have the time. As aircraft are funneling out of departure and are handed off according to procedure or agreement between terminal and enroute I can make tactical decisions prior to them checking on. If this is not the case I am guessing!!
I am not bitter. My point is there are alot of controllers in the terminal that have a better understanding of there actions and how it affects the enroute than high and mighty "Rog". There have been many occassions where I have seen guys walk down to the terminal and question what is going on. Sounding cool and being a rogue does not make one respected amongst peers. Just pilots I guess.
IFRATC
Questions for YYZ Tower?
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: Questions for YYZ Tower?
You shouldn't be - not with your awesome pension!!I am not bitter
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crooked timber
- Rank 2
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Re: Questions for YYZ Tower?
at the end of the day, i think both atc and pilots end up doing things that seems counterintuitive to the other group but both have their reasons. the presumption that controllers are good at their job by virtue of how cool they sound on the radio makes about as little sense as passengers who have totally off-base notions of what makes a good pilot.
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Married a Canadian
- Rank 3
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- Location: YYZ terminal
Re: Questions for YYZ Tower?
Yes is the answer. If we are on the 06s and you are coming in over watrerloo then we expect the arrivals to come in at 7000 ft...given that you are only about 30 miles from touchdown at that point..give or take afew vectors for spacing it is easier to have you lower. Plus as often happens on those runways there can be a nasty tailwind on final..so trying to get you down AND have you slowing down AND providing the tower with the required space is not easy. Better to have you descending further out than close in when there is not as much space to work with.I have a question. Do ATC types have standard arrival altitudes regardless if there's traffic or not. For example, coming in from ECK or south, we often have to start a decent like 250 NM out. It's kind of a pain. Is it always necessary or is it standard to avoid screw ups down the line
On the 24s we expect over Waterloo the arrivals to be level at 11000 (jets). This gives us a chance to sequence into the downwind in relation the the arrivals coming in over Linng. If you are too high then it can be tough to descend you through traffic from the south, and again get you to slow down in order to position you for final. We can slam dunk with the best of them in YYZ..but from a personal perspective I try not to as we lose control of you in the turn and end up screwing up the space on final. Descent further out gives tighter control in the terminal.
Personal opinion only..but seconded by afew of my colleagues.
Re: Questions for YYZ Tower?
I don't think he was talking about the 7000 ROKTO crossing, but more the fact that we get descended down to the mid 20,000's fairly early, usually by Cleveland center, out by ECK. Not a big deal to me...I always just figured it was a US ATC thing because we never get it on the Simcoe or Mans arrivals, but we always get it on the Waterloo and usually the Youth arrivals.
