I need help, again.

[wallypilot]

I would take the 1900. I think it would be able to do the trip non-stop with everyone on board. Not sure what the mileage is exactly but a BE02 has about a 7000 lb useful load, which should give you room for 16 pax, light bags and 4 hours of fuel at 260-280 KT, so pretty damn far. Would be the simplest and most economic choice. I'd call NT Air.

PSP is about 1000 NM. Probably be fine down, have to stop for fuel on the way home.

[xsbank]

A 1900 is a flying torture chamber - if you are going to be that spartan, just stick 'em on Southwest.

[Dockjock]

What's the name of the company, so I can short their stock. Let me get this straight, we have 16 "managers" that need to "meet" to discuss "business" in Palm Springs. Airlines have already been shot down as impractical, not feasible because the meeting is this week...no, wait it's not. It's in October, 8 months from now! In any case, they will all muster in YVR, if they don't all already live and work there, for their "business" trip to PSP.

Option a) which I call the "Buffett" option because it actually appears to give a shit about the shareholders' money that they are spending, is to fly Westjet friday morning at 0700 and arrive in PSP by 1220. They must return on Sunday at 1310 back in YVR by 2009. That costs $670pp x 16 = $10,720, and gives 48 hrs in PSP to conduct their business. Air Canada can do the same thing with different connections but slightly longer time in PSP for $1073pp x 16 = $17168.

Options b) through z) involve a shit ton of corporate executive bs justification about how their unique schedule just can. not. be accommodated by a dirty, public, unworthy entity like an airline. No, must be charter and likely, must be jet charter. They're Executives, after all, so dumping $30-50 grand through the fuel nozzles of a couple of learjets is clearly warranted.

Nice jammy little weekend slow season charter with a sweet crew layover for the company that scores it, but be advised, you will not exactly be transporting a bunch of responsible stewards of their company's balance sheet. Sheesh!

Pick a new destination (LAS, PHX, SAN are nonstops from YVR on multiple airlines)
Stay an extra day
Have the dang meeting in YVR
Just don't pretend you "need" to charter 8 months from now, it's embarrassing.

But Cat, you'll probably make a tidy commission to set it up so make it pay, brother.

[Cat Driver]

But Cat, you'll probably make a tidy commission to set it up so make it pay, brother.

Unfortunately I will not get any commission as I am a director of another company owned by the same person that is giving his managers a fun weekend in Palm springs for their annual get together.

Last year they all met in Lake Louise.

The reason we are thinking of using a couple of charter jets is because the company believes in rewarding good employees.

At first the idea was to have two points of departure for Palm Springs, Toronto and Vancouver....however I am looking at having everyone meet here in Vancouver where the head office is located. They will fly airline to Vancouver and then back to their home cities.

With terminals all across Canada from Vancouver to St Johns the use of airlines is the normal method of travel for management when required.

What is wrong with planning months ahead of a known event?

Pick a new destination (LAS, PHX, SAN are nonstops from YVR on multiple airlines)

The company does not own property in any of the above places.

[xsbank]

Dockjock, give your head a shake old son, maybe glance over this article while you contemplate the ways of the world.

http://www.netjets.com/bombardier.asp

[Cat Driver]

Dockjock is an interesting read xsbank if you click on his profile.

I will not toss and turn worrying about this tonight though.

What's the name of the company, so I can short their stock.

Me thinks he has enough on his plate at the moment watching the goings on at Air Canada to be any danger to the company I represent.

[Dockjock]

Doing business implies that one is concerned about profit, so wasting up to $30,000+ over the cost of airline travel merely to gain maybe 7 hrs additional time in PSP struck me as dumb business decision making, the kind that is done by people with more ego than brains. I think we can all agree that we are sick of executive largesse in the general sense, no matter what the justification.

But I thought it was a business trip, mistakenly. You didn't say initially that it was a reward/dick stroking exercise. Managers' dicks don't get hard over taking Westjet or Air Canada to PSP in economy. You have to start at business class and work up from there, especially if you are trying to subtly coerce them to never turn off their blackberries for the next 362 days. 16 business class tickets (didn't bother looking it up this time) probably starts around $25 grand, and even that's not too impressive if you have to connect and/or fly on an RJ for one of the legs.

[Cat Driver]

Everyone has their own opinions on everything Dockjock and I now have yours.

However first off I do not own the company and do not make decisions as to how said company treats their employees, however I do know the company is quite productive and the owner appreciates good employees.

Doing business implies that one is concerned about profit, so wasting up to $30,000+ over the cost of airline travel merely to gain maybe 7 hrs additional time in PSP struck me as dumb business decision making,

Send me your resume and outline your management skills and I will give it to the owner and maybe you would get the opportunity to work for his company.

We do not need pilots at this time but if we do I will take your attitude into consideration should we decide to hire another pilot.

Oh, by the way I bet the guys and gals who fly the charter jets agree with you that flying scheduled airlines is the only logical way to go.

[Go Juice]

If I owned a company, worked my ass off to make it successful and become rich enough that I can afford to charter a f*cking learjet and not sit next to a fat lady for 5 hours and wait 3 at the terminat and get my luggage lost. Guess what I'll do.

I'll f*cking call cat so he can hook me up!!

'nuff said!

[scot]

Yeah, it's about time someone mentioned the hookers....

[Cat Driver]

As time passes flying by airlines becomes ever more uncomfortable and frustrating in the terminals, at least a FBO still offers some attempt at customer service.

Gone are the days in Toronto when you bought your ticket and strolled across the ramp to a waiting DC7 and walked up the stairs into the airplane with no one treating you like a dangerous criminal.

[FrankD]

so wasting up to $30,000+ over the cost of airline travel merely to gain maybe 7 hrs additional time in PSP.....

My background is corporate aircraft sales so I admit I may be biased but here goes....

16 Managers x 7 Hrs each = 112 Hours

$30,000 in additional cost / 112 Hours = $267.85 per hour

Now Cat, I'll assume your owner only hires people who are halfway competent or better.

Your choices are managers wasting 7 hrs in airports and on crowded airplanes or paying 267 an hour to have them face to face meeting and being productive (and yes fun retreats are great for team/relationship building so can be very productive) $268 an hour seems ok to me.

When you factor in the time on private aircraft being useful for meetings etc versus airline flight time being a waste the deal looks even better.

[bandaid]

As time passes flying by airlines becomes ever more uncomfortable and frustrating in the terminals, at least a FBO still offers some attempt at customer service.

Gone are the days in Toronto when you bought your ticket and strolled across the ramp to a waiting DC7 and walked up the stairs into the airplane with no one treating you like a dangerous criminal.

Or leave you sitting abandoned at the airport for 15 hours. You don't get much production out of an employee sitting in an airport waiting for airline to graciously offer you less than what was contracted for through ticket sale.

[BE20 Driver]

If Cat Driver's company is publicly traded, management will have to answer to shareholders at the next share holder meeting. Dockjock has a point that the optics of chartering a Lear or two had better make it worth something to the shareholders. I don't own their stock so as far as I'm concerned, I don't have any say in how the company is run.

If Cat Driver's company is privately held, well than who are we to tell them what to do with their money.

I don't ask all of my charter passengers to sign a waiver indicating that the trip they are about to undertake is in the best interest of their company. I'm just happy to have hours in my logbook and money in my bank.

Taking the airlines supports two pilot jobs. Taking 2 Lears supports 4 pilots. Considering the economic times we have just gone through in the last few years, as a pilot, I'm just glad he's not taking the train.

[Cat Driver]

If Cat Driver's company is privately held, well than who are we to tell them what to do with their money.

First off I have already stated I do not own or work for the company that is planning on giving their employees a trip to Palm Springs, I am a director of another company that is owned by the individual giving his employees the trip and he asked me to do him a favor and look after the logistics for the October trip.

The company is privately owned so there is no need to worry about shareholders.

When I asked for suggestions on where to look for a suitable charter deal I knew there was a very good chance of negative comments being made, however I also know the mentality of some pilots so none of the negativity bothers me for a heart beat.

To those who offered positive comments thanks as I have contacted a few of the companies you suggested.

. .

[BE20 Driver]

I didn't mean to imply that it was your company. I should have said the company you are booking the charter flight for.

Privately held - have at'er. I am sure everyone will enjoy the trip and I'm sure that they earned it.

I'm only sorry that I couldn't help more. I'm sure I'd enjoy the trip as much as the execs would.