ACPA MEC Chairman FIRED!

[rudder]

There is no doubt we need ALPA it is how long will it take before ACPA realizes it?

ACPA(?) does not need to realise it. That decision falls within the sole purview of the AC pilots. There could be a movement to de-certify (pilots would have to be in an 'open' period), or there could be direction from a majority of the membership that the Executive enter into merger discussions with ALPA to merge the 2 associations (pilots would not have to be in an open period).

[777longhaul]

For Silent Majority

your post:

==============

quote="Rockie....... it would be naive to think their misplaced loyalties were confined to the contract.[/quote]

Indeed. It is well established that the company did approach the negotiating committee with a proposal to end the Age 60 fight early on in the negotiations.

With ACPA's refusal, we can only hope that the company did not start trading off concessions in exchange for their continued support of a cause that both ACPA and the company know will die in the next few months.

The last time this was played it involved seniority and resulted in delayed deliveries. Maybe we do need ALPA.


=======end

I have heard this as well, from several fronts, could you, please expand on any information that you might know? Did acpa get suckered, YET again, on the FP60 issue? I suspect, the company, suggested, very strongly, that they would pull out of the FP60 issue, and support with acpa, UNLESS acpa pushed out this stinking mess of a TA to the pilots.


Anyone else know of any events/facts, regarding this issue?

[morefun]

The company's line " support the TA otherwise you've lost our support for age 60 ". This gong show will be interesting to watch...!

[ihavecontrol]

I'm not entirely familiar with the history of the pilot group at Air Canada, but can someone explain why the pilots are not represented by ALPA?

[morefun]

That's a question we've been asking for over 10 years It is time we were represented by adults......

[Dark Helmet]

Wether it is ACPA, ALPA, CAW, Teamsters, etc, the union is only as string as its weakest link. If the right people are not at the helm, it does not matter who represents you.

[morefun]

That is true to a point, ACPA just doesn't have the horsepower that ALPA does. Not only are we people poor at ACPA but resourse poor, if ACPA was smart (which they aren't) they would seriously consider a merger with ALPA. On another point, now that the Conservatives have a majority and will bring in the last buget ( the one that ends mandatory retirement ) ACPA has pissed away the hundreds of millions that the company will save in pension contributions....oh it is only going to get better with these clowns

[Thirteentennorth]

Deleted!

[rudder]

When ACPA was originally proferred as an alternative to the mainstream pilot representation option, its proponents argued that it would always be a grass roots member driven (i.e. bottom up) organization. It would never suffer from the alleged autocratic deficiencies of the alternative nor from the perceived lack of recognition of the unique requirements of the AC pilots. Most of the current ACPA members did not have a say in that vote for representation. However, they have inherited the result.

ACPA is the AC pilot group. It will survive or disappear because that is the wish of the pilot group. But it will never be more than just the voice of the AC pilots. ALPA, on the other hand, represents the largest pilot groups on the planet. ALPA is the voice of airline pilots in North America and a significant proactive member at IFALPA which speaks for airline pilots worldwide. ALPA has resources that are the envy of most other boutique pilot associations and in many cases the envy of the airlines as well.

Years ago the then AC pilots made a choice to be an island. The AC pilots have a right to self determination and it is their own choice to accept representational status quo or to implement change. The current housecleaning is at least a sign that some degree of change is desired even if the AC pilots ultimately remain under the ACPA umbrella. Much like last night's election results, you never know what might happen when you stir the pot. That is what the TA debate has done.

[Rockie]

Years ago the then AC pilots made a choice to be an island.

When you choose to be an island as Air Canada pilots did with ACPA, you lose perspective and rational connection with the rest of the world. Your decisions become disconnected from reality because you only view things your way. Witness the mandatory retirement issue and Air Canada pilot's belief that they can exempt themselves from the changes that have already taken place in the rest of the country.

Islands are also easy pickings for unscrupulous leaders who pursue their own agenda while completely controlling the information given out to the residents.

[Disco Stu]

f'd up place to work.

Disco Stu! how come so silent? all done putting together petitions to oust?

Hahaha. Just keeping a close eye on numbers. Not much to add. Wish the YVR and YWG boys would step up a little.

[Norwegianwood]

Maybe this snippit from a Beatles story should be looked at closely.............

"The Beatles hit the jackpot, but they didn’t collect as much as they should because at times they didn’t get the competent help they needed and were too easygoing. The book shows how they signed bad contracts with their inexperienced manager Brian Epstein, who in turn made some woeful deals, notably with record producer George Martin. For every record the band sold, they were only getting one English penny as a royalty – with Mr. Epstein and his company taking 25 per cent off the top.

They also hired too many of their friends(ACPA), who became hangers-on(ACPA), and they set up a variety of companies, on whims(ACPA), supposedly to help with tax planning, that turned into financial debacles(ACPA).
The authors counsel you to get professional(ALPA), third-party advice when building your business."

[Johnny Mapleleaf]

I am truly disturbed that there appears to be a tendency within our union to turn every issue here into a constitutional fight.
For example, ACPA vs ALPA. These threads and these problems are not constitutional. They are not about any panacea with respect to finding alternatives to the union’s management or organization. Rather, they are largely issue-oriented. Internal. For example, a number of our current elected representatives are in the process of being impeached. The MEC Chair has already been removed. Other members of the MEC are in the same queue. Toast.

Where is that going to leave us, as a union? Who are we? How do we define ourselves? What do we want? And how do we elect replacement executives that will not only understand the questions, but find the answers? It is no answer, as I see it, to simply keep evicting those whom we don’t perceive to represent our interests. We have to move forward, and find, and elect those who can actually represent the interests of the membership as a whole.

Given the previous orientation to divide, rather than unite, the membership, in so many classifications, I don’t see much prospect of doing anything in the short term that will provide us with the necessary cohesion to lead us to stand together, rather than apart.

[Rockie]

Acting MEC Chairman April 30th 2011:
"After a thorough exploration of the issues, with particular emphasis on whether or not to endorse the TA, the MEC remained evenly divided and could not come to a majority decision on any endorsement of the TA either for or against."


Negotiating Committee Newsletter MAY 3rd, 2011:
"The Negotiating Committee believes this is an industry-leading contract and has no hesitation in recommending this TA to you."


So what are we supposed to think here? Deliberate deceit, or gross incompetence exercising control over a rogue negotiating committee?

Nevermind professional negotiators, we need a professional and competent union that has their loyalties straight.

[rudder]

Acting MEC Chairman April 30th 2011:
"After a thorough exploration of the issues, with particular emphasis on whether or not to endorse the TA, the MEC remained evenly divided and could not come to a majority decision on any endorsement of the TA either for or against."


Negotiating Committee Newsletter MAY 3rd, 2011:
"The Negotiating Committee believes this is an industry-leading contract and has no hesitation in recommending this TA to you."


So what are we supposed to think here? Deliberate deceit, or gross incompetence exercising control over a rogue negotiating committee?

Nevermind professional negotiators, we need a professional and competent union that has their loyalties straight.

Reminds me of a proceeding where an ACPA rep wasn't getting any traction in his submission with the arbitrator, so he suggested that "Maybe I will talk slower so you will understand better " Sounds like this NC plan on talking very slowly to the pilots.

And if (when) the TA fails, the pilots should have no hesitation in recommending that the MEC remove the entire NC. The NC have now turned this vote into a confidence motion.

[jdm]

f'd up place to work.

Disco Stu! how come so silent? all done putting together petitions to oust?

Hahaha. Just keeping a close eye on numbers. Not much to add. Wish the YVR and YWG boys would step up a little.

Interesting that you had no trouble discussing the petitions here when you were sending them out, but now that guys have questions about how they ended up with a worse contract than they started out with, you suddenly have nothing to say here.

[Mig29]

Sorry for being ignorant here guys, but aside from MEC being fired, what the heck is everyone talking about voting down or for this TA???

Didn't the arbitrator pretty much decide for everyone what the new contract will be just last Monday??

Again, my apology if I sound naive, but I just want a quick explanation on whats going on?

thanks

[DBC]

He bumped the thread from May 2011 since it looks like he's bitter at someone, you can disregard it.

[jdm]

Sorry for being ignorant here guys, but aside from MEC being fired, what the heck is everyone talking about voting down or for this TA???

Didn't the arbitrator pretty much decide for everyone what the new contract will be just last Monday??

Again, my apology if I sound naive, but I just want a quick explanation on whats going on?

thanks

There was some pretty underhanded behavior that led to that contract being overturned, I asked a guy a question about his involvement in it, and he seems bent on evading the question, that's why I bumped the thread.

It's about credibility. The lack of an answer speaks volumes.

[Sulako]

JDM: you have already asked the guy about this in a different thread. There's no need to necro this one.

Locked.