Carson Air (metro)

[goingnowherefast]

I just barely meet the Carson Air requirements and currently make about 75% more in pay than one of their new hires. The company I work for now isn't perfect, but no company is. It will be a cold day in hell before my resume shows up at there.

Bearskin has the same airplanes, same hiring minimums and starting pay is 30k, plus a much better reputation. Bond isn't as nasty either.

[N1 Green]

It's not about Carson in particular. it's about the big dogs attitude, they tend to forget their past.
when young pilots ask about first job in this forum, most people tell them "don't sign the bond!" "stay away from the ramp". etc.

well, each time one of you guys write it , please, ask YOURSELF, "How did I get my first paying job as a pilot?"
the answer is simple: you were an aviation SLAVE at some point. maybe 10, maybe 15 or 20 years ago, YOU were there. you had zero options and all you wanted to do is FLY. justify you $$ you put into flight training and bring some pride to your family. YOU had no choice back in the days you had 250 hrs.


and please don't tell me your making $20 as an instructor for your first flying job, its bull. write down the time you put your car into Parking and the time you put it back into Drive out in the flight school parking lot. divide the amount of $$ your getting paid from your flight school by the time you were actually ON SITE, probably 8-9 dollars per hour.

have you ever seen a Facebook page trying to gather pilots to fight the low pay? a CTV item on the news showing that pilots getting paid below minimum? how about bunch of pilots protesting outside Transport Canada is Ottawa ? , have you seen any union of 703/2 pilots fighting for their rights? NADA, nothing, zero. you know why? because people don't give a shit. they get their hours and try to get to 705 asap.

my point is, if your in your late 30's, flying 705 and making good $$ - take a moment and think how can you change this condition, how can you help young pilots get a better pay, better life and respect.

Or, maybe you don't want to do that, maybe you want the young pilots to "pay their dues" (it other words: fu@! it, I was an aviation slave and "earned" my pilot gig, let them do the same shitty track).
that is SICK.


it's all about values and what we bring from home. do we care or not care about each other. bottom line.

[altiplano]

Bwahaaaa....

Better show up with some a plan, some skills and some balls.

What do you think princess? It's fun and games? "Let's hold hands and brief the pax."

Is it the company's fault that plane was off the end? Nah, that's some jackass who couldn't put it in there smooth and didn't know how to say "no" before he found out.

Get in, get out, survive... West coast 703/704... That's all there is to it. Doesn't matter which company you're at... All crap...

You want to be a captain asap and can handle it? There it is. Hell of a good time to be had too. It aint for everyone and sure it's a shatty job, but they all are at that level as far as I'm concerned. Plan, skills, balls. Get in, get out, survive.

[PositiveRate27]

And if you get it wrong you kill yourself? Sorry, but I'm smart enough to say "I'm not experienced enough to command this airplane, and I'm going to find an operation that will train me properly before they cut me loose."

I'm not saying you won't pay your dues, and I'm not saying you won't be a slave at some point. There are some operators you are best to avoid, and this is one of them. If you want to play aviation roulette with your life, Carson has a contract he'd love you to sign.

I've been at operators that have had hull losses and fatalities. I've seen a friend pulled out of a river in a body bag. Go be a west coast hero if you want, but it's not the only way. Forget politics, CEO's and the college of pilots. Ask if all this is worth 21K a year when there is a better way.

[altiplano]

Yeah, if you can't stand up for yourself and say "no", you can kill yourself.

Scabby operators have been pushing pilots since long ago. Stick up for yourself, be a "Captain".

[PositiveRate27]

Excellent advice. Stick up for yourself, what your worth and for what others have paid for with their lives and don't work for scabby operators like Carson.

[johnny_paints]

Including per diems in the pay. If that's the case, work at Mcdonalds. Sure it's minimum wage but if you include the employee discount and eat big macs for every meal that's like making an extra 5k a year!

[glorifieddriver]

Even balloon pilots make more......how did we let our industry get below any reasonable standard?


Licensed Hot Air Balloon Pilots required to fly passsenger and advertising flights in Hot Air Balloons for Sundance Balloons. Will be responsible for flight related decisions, safety of all passengers, crew and equipment, flight record keeping and maintaining equipment.

Positions available in: Ottawa, Barrie/Toronto, Kitchener, London, Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver/Langley.

Full time, seasonal positions - May to November. $800 - $1000 per week depending on experience + bonuses. $600 per month accommodation allowance if primary residence is more than 200km from work location.

MUST have a Hot Air Balloon pilot license and a minimum of 100 hours pilot in command.

Some travel between cities may be required. Travel expenses, when required, paid by employer.

References required. Qualified candidates only please.

Head office: Sundance Balloons, 48 Crampton Drive, Belmont, ON N0L1B0

Apply by Februrary 6, 2015 to: jobs@sundanceballoons.com

[CanadianEh]

Even balloon pilots make more......how did we let our industry get below any reasonable standard?

Supply and demand. If there are more pilots than there are jobs, then it's a buyers market for the employer. If the jobs out number the pilots, then the pilots will have some leverage.

Economics 101.

[CanadianEh]

Even balloon pilots make more......how did we let our industry get below any reasonable standard?

Supply and demand. If there are more pilots than there are jobs, then it's a buyers market for the employer. If the jobs out number the pilots, then the pilots will have some leverage.

Economics 101.

[altiplano]

Curious where your buddy was off the end and got fired? What were the conditions? Carson goes mostly into some long runways... He must have really pooched it.

Again it's a shatty job. So is CMA and Pasco and Bearskin and Perimeter and Georgian and the rest... They all are. Is one marginally better than the other? maybe here or there, but they're all crap. get in, get what you need and jet to a 705 gig asap. That's all these spots are, stepping stones, so you make the jump that take you across the stream quickest/easiest/etc. To point at Carson as being so mu h worse is fallacy. At Carson you go captain in probably 6 months at least - that gets your pay higher than riding the right seat for years at some of the others mentioned and might get you through sooner depending on the industry.

If you think a year or 2 making an extra couple thou is going to make your life better in the long run hold out and stay unemployed or keep riding the right seat wherever you are I suppose... Or take the rampie job for $24K - that's clearly the fast road to success right there.

Is that bond for 2 type ratings too? I'm guessing it is... Marginally better at least...

[Cat Driver]

well, each time one of you guys write it , please, ask YOURSELF, "How did I get my first paying job as a pilot?"
the answer is simple: you were an aviation SLAVE at some point. maybe 10, maybe 15 or 20 years ago, YOU were there. you had zero options and all you wanted to do is FLY. justify you $$ you put into flight training and bring some pride to your family. YOU had no choice back in the days you had 250 hrs.

Maybe in your world you will do anything just to fly, including working for companies that push the limits and use intimidation to force pilots to fly for peanuts.

I never ever chose that route and from my first job I was paid fairly and refused to expose myself to conditions beyond my experience and comfort level.

The problem with a lot of pilots today is they will do anything to fly and bottom feeder companies love you.

[iflyforpie]

It's not about Carson in particular. it's about the big dogs attitude, they tend to forget their past.
when young pilots ask about first job in this forum, most people tell them "don't sign the bond!" "stay away from the ramp". etc.

well, each time one of you guys write it , please, ask YOURSELF, "How did I get my first paying job as a pilot?"
the answer is simple: you were an aviation SLAVE at some point. maybe 10, maybe 15 or 20 years ago, YOU were there. you had zero options and all you wanted to do is FLY. justify you $$ you put into flight training and bring some pride to your family. YOU had no choice back in the days you had 250 hrs.

There is a huge difference between low pay and insulting pay. There is also a huge difference between a job you get with 250 hours, and a job at Carson Air where they want over a thousand hours and typically some multi-turbine time plus saddle you with a huge bond.

To get where I am, I never signed a bond, I never worked the ramp, and I never worked for poverty wages. Tight wages for sure... and they still aren't enough... but not to the point where I have to ask for an allowance or stare down Ramen noodles 5 days a week and 'feast' on KD on the weekend...

[altiplano]

refused to expose myself to conditions beyond my experience and comfort level.

That's it... ^ ^ ^ ^

was this was your buddies' excursion PR27?

CADORS Number:2014C0124

YQR, 1/4 sm, FZFG, VV002, 5kt tailwiind, rfi .5, touchdown midway point rwy13?

Tough day. Might have done better if he didn't land with half the runway behind him... Or went around? Or didn't accept a tailwind? Was it Carson Air's fault what unfolded there? Or was it the decisions made by the guys up front? I don't remember Carson/FedEx ever pushing guys on fuel.

[iflyforpie]

I remember hearing about KC saying 'try again boys' over the radio to a Metro in the missed from Kelowna....

[PointyEngine]

When I go into YLW I can help but think of the eye of Mordor with the huge yellow Shell sign hanging on KC's office.

EDITED: Also, as most know the metro has a few specific quirks of its own. There have been a couple incidents where they've departed runways, either of the end of "direct enter enter" straight between the runway lighting. Lets not play Transport Inspector and try to place blame without knowing the full situation behind these incidents. From memory there was the Regina incident and also Dawson Creek in the last 12 months.

[PositiveRate27]

refused to expose myself to conditions beyond my experience and comfort level.

That's it... ^ ^ ^ ^

was this was your buddies' excursion PR27?

CADORS Number:2014C0124

YQR, 1/4 sm, FZFG, VV002, 5kt tailwiind, rfi .5, touchdown midway point rwy13?

Tough day. Might have done better if he didn't land with half the runway behind him... Or went around? Or didn't accept a tailwind? Was it Carson Air's fault what unfolded there? Or was it the decisions made by the guys up front? I don't remember Carson/FedEx ever pushing guys on fuel.

Guess again. If you haven't worked at Carson, you can't understand the internal pressures to get the job done. It's easy for someone who has sat left seat for a while in a company that supports their Captains decisions to preach about "Putting your foot down." It's not as easy for a person who is placed in the left seat against their will and doesn't have the experience to fall back on when things go sideways. I'm not absolving anyone, but it takes two to tango.


I'm not here to convince you to not work for Carson. If you value yourself at that level, have at it. I can assure you places such as GGN, PASCO, and CMA are much better than Carson because I have worked at places you have mentioned too. If you are coming in to Carson, you have at least 1000hrs. This means you have most likely been working in the industry for at least 2 years. Even if the ramp at CMA takes 2 years, you'll start off making more doing ramp work, and once you are in the right seat you'll make $12000 a year more than a Carson FO. $32,000 a year isn't a jackpot, but its a sustainable wage in this country. All I'm saying, is there are other ways that aren't as painful as Carson.

For anyone else considering working for Carson Air, here are the facts:

-You will work 12 hours a day, Monday through Friday. You will be compensated $21,500 per year for this. That is $1791.66 per month before taxes.
-You will sign a bond for $18,000. That's 84% of your yearly salary. If you sign this, and find out that you are in way over your head, there is almost no way out.


Best of luck to everyone trying to navigate this fickle sector of the industry, and I hope everyone achieves what they have set out to do.

PR

[Heisenberg666]

Again it's a shatty job. So is CMA and Pasco and Bearskin and Perimeter and Georgian and the rest... They all are. Is one marginally better than the other? maybe here or there, but they're all crap.

While Perimeter, Georgian, Bearskin are not perfect, they are definitely not in the same league as Carson.

[sstaurus]

Again it's a shatty job. So is CMA and Pasco and Bearskin and Perimeter and Georgian and the rest... They all are. Is one marginally better than the other? maybe here or there, but they're all crap.

While Perimeter, Georgian, Bearskin are not perfect, they are definitely not in the same league as Carson.

+1

[altiplano]

find out that you are in way over your head

Didn't get the upgrade, eh?

[PositiveRate27]

find out that you are in way over your head

Didn't get the upgrade, eh?

I did actually

[altiplano]

How long did it take?

[PositiveRate27]

4 months

[N1 Green]

4 months

4 months FO to CAPT? sounds like North Korea

how many multi hours the average FO brings when they get hired with Carson ?

[altiplano]

4 months

4 months in and a big pay bump... Doubled?

By 8 months in you'll be ahead of the guys money-wise, who will ride in the right seat for years at the other operators...

By 2 years your bond will be up, 1500 hours MPIC, including +12500 PIC, airline seat is in sight... Heck you could go direct entry left seat at encore... Lol... Or is that too scabby?

And all you have to do is make good choices, fly safe and do your time.