CUPE serves strike notice for Oct 13, 2011

[Rockie]

I wouldn't count on Air Canada pilots supporting the FA's in any substantial way. Attitudes like The Original Tony's are not all that unusual, and we have a proven inability to see the long view in most issues.

Lisa Raitt's comments should be ringing the alarm bells loud and clear at the Canadian Labour Congress though and they should be putting themselves on a war footing if they're not already there.

[Alfa]

Rockie is absolutely right, pilots aren't that smart either. Some never want to retire....... Brilliant.
As far as the democratic process KAG, not to worry. It will not affect your profit share at WJ where strike isn't even in the vocabulary. Our fa's have it better than most on the same job detail. Yet strike is all they know. Let them tell you about the snap backs in pay, the drafting on a daily basis, sometimes for an entire pairing to complete a leg home that will be 5 mins over duty. Let them go and hire new. They are severely unskilled labour and should be treated justly.
Nobody is forcing them to stay. Take their skill set and head to the nearest coffee shop. Life is much better there. Pension and all.
Rant over. I'm just glad to be off this week..

Tony

Are you serious? this is not just about serving coffee or tea.. Maybe you should try just one of our many 11 hour flights with no crew seats and no where to rest, while you eat your meals right by the lavatories. No body in this world should endure such treatment at their work place. I'm sure you wouldn't be sitting there if your job was on the line and about to loose all the perks it comes with. There are plenty of pilots waiting to take your job.

You are not above us. so get of your high horse.. I dare you to say what you said to a flight attendant... You will see how lovely flying with us will be.

[Morry Bund]

I wouldn't count on Air Canada pilots supporting the FA's in any substantial way.

Don't expect any support whatsoever, from the pilots. First, isn't it illegal in Canada to refuse to cross a picket line? The ACPA collective agreement requires pilots to perform their job, and there is no exception in that agreement or in law to allow refusal to work because a different union is on strike against one's employer.

Second, wouldn't any attempt by the union to endorse or even condone any activity that would interfere with the employer's operations be illegal as well, leading to possible legal sanctions against that union and/or its officers?

Third, what kind of support is left, if actions in support are not permissible? Financial support? Who would agree to that expenditure? Media support? Worthless, as well as problematic, politically.

In the 1996 F/A strike there was some effort by pilots to individually challenge the professional qualifications of some of the replacement F/A's. Sporadic, and largely unsuccessful, from my experience. On the flip side, there was the spectacular incident where one Captain (who shall remain nameless) got on the P.A. and told the passengers that they should be appreciative that they were finally getting the quality of service that they deserved by replacement F/A's who were, in his terms, excited to be able to have the job.

As has been noted before, we are our own worst enemies.

[wirez]

"Second, wouldn't any attempt by the union to endorse or even condone any activity that would interfere with the employer's operations be illegal as well, leading to possible legal sanctions against that union and/or its officers?"

Every AC union except ACPA has supported CUPE. ACPA currently stands alone on this.

[Rockie]

Third, what kind of support is left, if actions in support are not permissible? Financial support? Who would agree to that expenditure? Media support? Worthless, as well as problematic, politically.

One of ACPA's biggest faults besides lack of vision is their refusal to behave like what they really are...a trade union. We think of ourselves in isolation and for the most part are only concerned with how things effect ME. But in reality we are a small part of a much larger picture and had better start thinking and acting accordingly.

The FA issue is just the latest skirmish in what has become a war because worker's rights Canada wide are under sustained, blatant attack like never before by this government. The Canadian Labour Congress should be pulling out all the stops to fight this regression and ACPA should be banging down their door not only insisting on dramatic action but putting their full weight behind it as well as a trade union.

This is very much a PR campaign. The Occupy Wall Street movement in New York is spreading thanks in part to media coverage igniting years of dissatisfaction with the top 1% feeding off the other 99, and the attack on labour in Canada is directly related to that issue. The Harper government has used their usual blunt instrument in three high profile labour disputes recently, two of which happen to be at Air Canada soon to be followed by a third. Any worker bee out there has got to be feeling the wolf breathing down their neck whether they belong to a union or not especially with Lisa Raitt's latest bombshell, and must be very uncomfortable with what they see developing.

The backlash against corporate greed and governments that support it has quite a bit of momentum already, but it needs to grow even more or worker's rights in this country will be gutted by Harper. Loud, noisy publicity and the use of social media to get the message out to every working Canadian is our only really effective weapon, and it's completely legal. Our own pilot website (non-ACPA) was instrumental in rejecting the first TA despite a union working for the company and not us. The same is true of the FA's with their facebook page. It is also a major driving force making the occupy wall street effort possible.

That's the kind of thing we can (and must) do to support not only the FA's, but ourselves and every other working Canadian before the Conservatives set us back 100 years.

[Stu Pidasso]

All fair points, Rockie.

However, the association between Pilots and F/A's is one of "familiarity breeds contempt."

We have watched the steady decline, over the last three decades I've been around. F/A's have sat around breeding petty jealousy and demanding everything the Pilots get. A few week course after high school, verse a decade of training, education and experience to get to an Airline the equivalent of Air Canada.

So forgive those of us that feel that CUPE has dug their own grave, with their constant push for equality with Pilots.

"Me Too" clauses, J-class deadheading, work of equal value BS, I could go on....

And they wonder why the Pilots are pushing back? We've had enough of you riding our coat tails, go stand on your own two feet.

We are NOT equals!

When you can be replaced by a "Door Man from Guarda,” you may want to reassess how much your skill set is worth on the global market.

[Rockie]

We are NOT equals!

I agree, they are our superiors when it comes to negotiating which is entirely our own failing. Not the "me too" clause or anything else they get despite the pilot's misplaced and worthless sense of entitlement.

In any event that is local thinking again which only serves Air Canada and the federal government. We are all in the same boat wrt to the larger picture and what's good for them is good for us and everybody else in that context.

[fly4ever]

Wow! If this is how the pilots at AC feel about the cabin crews whom they should have excellent CRM relations, no wonder management is not working with employees, why bother cuz employees even bad mouth each other! Why would anyone want to work at this company? Can we say disfunctional on all levels. Everytime I read about AC and employee relations I fear that this company doesnt have much of a life left. Time for a new airline in Canada!

[System Message]

Reading this as well as the unions own statements has made it obvious how utterly bought and paid for the Liberal party is and the control the union bosses have over the elected members of parliament and even their own union members.

[Rockie]

Reading this as well as the unions own statements has made it obvious how utterly bought and paid for the Liberal party is and the control the union bosses have over the elected members of parliament and even their own union members.

Huh?

[Donald]

People who are unionized or not will be affected by whatever changes Raitt proposes. Even Westjetters should pay attention, since they seem to pride themselves on not needing a union with their management. If the day comes that they desire that change, the option may not (effectively) be there anymore.

[yyz monkey]

This is very much a PR campaign.

Damn straight, and EVERY union at Air Canada should be waging it as such. We should all be banding together and pushing ads in every major newspaper across the country, along with television, getting the facts out to the public. Let them know that the executive pay at Air Canada has returned to pre-CCAA levels, but ours hasn't. Let them know that the CEO salary has increased 272% since 2003, but we're still made to make do with a contract negotiated under bankruptcy. Let them know that same salary increased 33% YOY from 2009-2010 while the company has consistently failed to turn a profit.

[vic777]

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

Benjamin Franklin

[CD]

Air Canada flight attendants blocked from striking
CBC News Posted: Oct 11, 2011 8:56 AM PT

The federal government is referring the labour dispute between Air Canada and its flight attendants to the Canada Industrial Relations Board, a move that will prevent the employees from going on strike Thursday, Labour Minister Lisa Raitt said.

"What it's meant to do is before there's a work stoppage, just to make sure that the work stoppage is not going to affect the health and safety of the public and that's what the CIRB will take a look at after hearing from the parties involved," Raitt said on CBC-TV's Power & Politics with Evan Solomon.

Raitt said the CIRB would have to consider what communities might be cut off from service to urban centres and what affect that would have on Canadians' health and safety.

On Monday, Raitt said the government would intervene with back-to-work legislation if Air Canada flight attendants went on strike, and she suggested it would change the Canada Labour Code if it finds it necessary.

But how soon a possible strike could be ended by government back-to-work legislation would have depended on how fast Parliament could get recalled — it is currently on a break until Oct. 17 — and how long the NDP might filibuster...

Full article here...

[Inverted2]

So much for democracy.........

I imagine there will be a lot of flight attendants not feeling well on Thursday.

[Topspin]

CBC Readers;



Sad....

[RogerCheckCopy]

I for one is not surprised over the threats and actions of our Government. When Harper got his majority in the last election I knew the true colors of the Conservatives would reveal themselves very quickly... While Lisa Raitt is busy crushing us working ants, Harper is likely so busy keeping his buddies in big oil happy that he is probably hardly noticing what is going on.....

Rockie:
I agree with all your comments. We, all hard working Canadians will be set back a 100 years if nobody stands up. Workers rights or lack there of will not necessarily only affect those whom are members of a trade union.

The Original Tony:
Your attitude towards FA's aside, does it not concern you what the potential precedent this might set will do to ACPA's ability to negotiate and possibly improve upon your current contract? Not a lot of details are available as far as what the FA's are asking for, but is sounds like they are mainly asking for some of their previous concessions back. I read in one paper that management is looking to lower the top end of the payscale from 46k or so to 36k, and lower starting wages to 18k a year.

You might not need a lot of education to be a Flight Attendant. Anyone that can pass a Medical and have $$ can get a pilot's license as well. That is all besides the point, because in eyes of most upper management at the majority of larger corporations, no employee is more or less valuable that the next.

[TheSuit]

The only reason Air Canada is still standing is because the feds block other carriers from operating within Canada. Seems like you guys want it both ways.

[Rockie]

The only reason Air Canada is still standing is because the feds block other carriers from operating within Canada. Seems like you guys want it both ways.

That's strange, I seem to recall lots of airplanes at Pearson last time I went to work that weren't from Canada. What is it exactly that we want both ways?

[KAG]

Rockie is absolutely right, pilots aren't that smart either. Some never want to retire....... Brilliant.
As far as the democratic process KAG, not to worry. It will not affect your profit share at WJ where strike isn't even in the vocabulary. Our fa's have it better than most on the same job detail. Yet strike is all they know. Let them tell you about the snap backs in pay, the drafting on a daily basis, sometimes for an entire pairing to complete a leg home that will be 5 mins over duty. Let them go and hire new. They are severely unskilled labour and should be treated justly.
Nobody is forcing them to stay. Take their skill set and head to the nearest coffee shop. Life is much better there. Pension and all.
Rant over. I'm just glad to be off this week..

Tony

Tony, sounds like you need the weekend off. Ya got some bitterness issues. Your right though "strike" isn't in our vocabulary neither is work to rule, which by the way most certinally will affect my profit share cheque. While I think your FAs are fairly compensated, Im throwing my support behind the process which seems to be under attack. This affects us all.

[TheSuit]

TC controls all access by foreign carriers, and no foreign carrier can operate point-to-point within Canada. I'm just saying Rockie, maybe the AC cabin crew would like the government to butt out entirely and they can compete with the service on Singapore or Emirates?

[vic777]

maybe the AC cabin crew would like the government to butt out entirely and they can compete with the service on Singapore or Emirates?

On a level playing field, Canadians can go toe to toe with anyone in Aviation.

[teacher]

TC controls all access by foreign carriers, and no foreign carrier can operate point-to-point within Canada. I'm just saying Rockie, maybe the AC cabin crew would like the government to butt out entirely and they can compete with the service on Singapore or Emirates?

It's called cabotage, no country allows this anywhere with only very select exceptions.

[Rockie]

TC controls all access by foreign carriers, and no foreign carrier can operate point-to-point within Canada. I'm just saying Rockie, maybe the AC cabin crew would like the government to butt out entirely and they can compete with the service on Singapore or Emirates?

Every country does that suit, none more effectively than your heroes in Dubai. But what does that have to do with worker's rights in Canada?

[duranium]

In a nutshell then, AC F/A's want to strike for WHAT THEY THINK they are worth versus WHAT THEY ARE really worth, ei: in a previous post, did someone not relate that there are 100 applicants for every newly hired F/A job at AC.

Simple 101 economics lesson = THE LAW OF OFFER AND DEMAND. Cogitate that one for more than a second, all you "turbine engines"

As for the Feds legislating back to work, unless you are living outside of this galaxy, we in North America ( that includes Canada for the uninitiated ) plus all of Europe are a wisker away from a recession ( how many layoffs this time around ? ) so it makes perfect sense that the powers that are, are protecting the greater interests of ALL Canadians and that a strike WILL hurt Canada by restricting the free movement of people and material. In other words, the use of the lesser of two evils.