Here's a radical thought...

[Stu Pidasso]

"We" being the Pilots and AME's at Air Canada; the disconnect between the two Airlines is on the unskilled labour side.

You do not see a WJ Rampie leaning on his tug, staring into space, while an Aircraft is forced to come to a full stop because this guy can't move ten feet over and put two sticks in the air.

At WJ they are contractors and would get fired for a fraction of the indiscretions we tolerate every day.

I'll stand by the "grossly overpaid" comment on the F/A's, considering the prerequisites for the job (ZERO) and the company paid training (few weeks).

There is a line-up willing to replace you.

Bottom line is - these jobs are paying $10.80/hr for a reason.

Air Canada has been preaching that they need to compete with their "Major Domestic Competitor" yet they have been handing out raises to the employee groups that have the largest disparity.

Air Canada has plenty of outstanding people working in every department, unfortunately, we see far to much on the other side of the spectrum.

[DrBoeing]

"We" being the Pilots and AME's at Air Canada; the disconnect between the two Airlines is on the unskilled labour side.

You do not see a WJ Rampie leaning on his tug, staring into space, while an Aircraft is forced to come to a full stop because this guy can't move ten feet over and put two sticks in the air.

At WJ they are contractors and would get fired for a fraction of the indiscretions we tolerate every day.

I'll stand by the "grossly overpaid" comment on the F/A's, considering the prerequisites for the job (ZERO) and the company paid training (few weeks).

There is a line-up willing to replace you.

Bottom line is - these jobs are paying $10.80/hr for a reason.

Air Canada has been preaching that they need to compete with their "Major Domestic Competitor" yet they have been handing out raises to the employee groups that have the largest disparity.

Air Canada has plenty of outstanding people working in every department, unfortunately, we see far to much on the other side of the spectrum.

I will not comment on the pilot pay as I do not know what the pilots at WJ make. as well as the FA's and the baggage people, I will say that we AME's at AC make a fair bit less than the AME's at WJ, same applies to TransAt, First Air, Bearskin, Air inuit and hell, we make less than JAZZ. The pundits will say that we have a pension, blah blah blah, but they will not say that WE AME's at AC must have knowledge of a min of 5 fleet types and higher for the contract carriers we handle where as the others mentioned must have knowledge of 1 maybe 2 fleet types, plus the frequency of flights at AC are far greater so that translates into a heavier work load.

[whiteguy]

I'll stand by the "grossly overpaid" comment on the F/A's, considering the prerequisites for the job (ZERO) and the company paid training (few weeks).

There is a line-up willing to replace you.

.

I disagree, about a year ago AC was trying to hire many FAs with a second language and could only find a small number.

If AC wasn't restricted by Government language rules then it be able to hire from a larger pool!

No other airlines have to follow these rules!!

I love the "grossly overpaid" comment, I'm sure many FAs would love to be but are not! I keep reading that they make $80k a year. My wife makes top rate at AC as an FA and I'm an FO for a charter company in YYC. We don't make $80k combined!!

[aroundthewing]

"We" being the Pilots and AME's at Air Canada; the disconnect between the two Airlines is on the unskilled labour side.

You do not see a WJ Rampie leaning on his tug, staring into space, while an Aircraft is forced to come to a full stop because this guy can't move ten feet over and put two sticks in the air.

Really? You've never seen a ramp employee from another company leaning on a tractor? hmmm...

At WJ they are contractors and would get fired for a fraction of the indiscretions we tolerate every day.

They do get fired every day!!

I'll stand by the "grossly overpaid" comment on the F/A's, considering the prerequisites for the job (ZERO) and the company paid training (few weeks).

Overpaid as compared to whom?? Proof please!!

There is a line-up willing to replace you.

I personally know several pilots working up North that would replace you for 1/2 your wage tomorrow!

Bottom line is - these jobs are paying $10.80/hr for a reason.

Is there a reason why other ramp handling companies start their employees at a higher wage than Air Canada's new hires? Or do you think that just the Air Canada new hires deserve $10.80/hr to start?

Air Canada has been preaching that they need to compete with their "Major Domestic Competitor" yet they have been handing out raises to the employee groups that have the largest disparity.

And this refers to unionized employees only?

Air Canada has plenty of outstanding people working in every department, unfortunately, we see far to much on the other side of the spectrum.

What spectrum would that be?

[Stu Pidasso]

Where to start, I could be here all day;

Bottom line with 'ramp service' is contractors offer superior service. Everywhere we fly in the A/C network, we receive substantially better service, than at home. I have had numerous conversations with Ramp Managers, if (?) a rampie gets fired at A/C - they are back before the ink dries. You will (close to never) have to bring the Aircraft to a full stop waiting for a rampie, moving at a glacial pace, anywhere but Canada.

It is business as usual around here. Not to mention we are the poster Airline for lost baggage?

On the F/A pay, the top end Service Directors are north of 65K/year. There is absolutely NO WJ F/A earning anywhere near that level of compensation.

Whitguy – it is always fun talking about F/A’s with Pilots married to one. They always know the truth, but won’t admit it. Remind yourself of what your personal investment in your career was, verse your wife. I have never (in 35 years of flying) met an F/A that had someone get killed advancing their career. You can walk out of your grade 12 classroom and become an F/A, no financial commitment to education or training. Your combined income is a product of …you….being underpaid.

I appreciate you are getting started in your career; let’s talk once you are at an Airline.
Especially, if you join a dysfunctional Union disaster like A/C…best of luck with your career.

Pilot pay - W/J pays more for its narrow body Pilots than A/C (pension aside.)

Your comment about the ‘ Pilots up north’ proves your lack of understanding and is not worth the effort.

At the present time any A/C Pilot can take a position with an overseas carrier, earning more money that they do at A/C. We have Recruiters standing outside the Flight Ops offices, soliciting Pilots. There is a massive shortage of experienced Pilots around the globe and the compensation packages are increasing.

The only thing you can say about rampies and F/A’s, is they don’t know how good they have it.

At the end of the debate, if Air Canada was (which it is not) serious about competing with W/J it would be taking a serious run at concessions from the un-skilled labour.

[aroundthewing]

Stu, I'm not going to quote all that!
Are you a Pilot/Lawyer/Politician by chance? You may have some valid points, but basically a circumvented reply to my post.
I'll agree to disagree with you.

Cheers bud!