DeltaHotel wrote:I filled an opposition for my case back in december. I got a call from my appointed person at the Can Revenue Agency, they studied my case and a lot a similar ones (my ex collegues) and they have denied my opposition - I will have to reimburse $1200.
DeltaHotel, did you try to claim the training bond expense as an Employment Expense?
Not sure it can be stated any simplier, if you gave your employer $10,000.00 and they gave it back you have not incurred an expense, nothing to claim.
If they (CRA) accepted your claim that it was an expense and allowed you to deduct the payment to your employer as such what happens when the funds are returned to you by that same employer? Taxable income I suspect... can't have it both ways.
i.e tax deduction up front, tax free on the backend
DeltaHotel wrote:I filled an opposition for my case back in december. I got a call from my appointed person at the Can Revenue Agency, they studied my case and a lot a similar ones (my ex collegues) and they have denied my opposition - I will have to reimburse $1200.
They gave me the choice of going to ''income tax court''.
I dont know if I will ... we'll see
If the company does the right paperwork, the training bond is tax deductible. check out the following thread:
these 2 threads pretty much explain it all. If your employer was not kind enough to fill out the T2200, and to not offer you a receipt for the amount of the bond you paid, then I am afraid you are out of luck. If you did get the T2200 signed, and you filled out T777, and you have a receipt for the amount you are out of pocket for the bond, then it will qualify as an employment expense under "other employmnet expenses". It's not tuition, it's an employment expense.
Maybe you didn' claim it properly?
either way, pay the $1200, and if you can, get the appropriate paperwork from your ex employer, then file a T1-ADJ to reclaim the amount.
4hrstovegas wrote:Did anybody actually read the T4044 docs?? You CANNOT deduct a bond as an employment expense, or anything else. If somebody has managed it and it wasn't noticed, it is just that.
Tuition deductions have to be from an accredited educational institution that is authorized to sign off a T2202A.
This is correct, the course MUST be from an accredited institution. For those who claimed it and "got away with it", count yourself lucky. Just hope you do not get audited within 6 years. People make false claims all of the time and some don't get caught while some do.
WetJet wrote:
If you pay your employees well and treat them good then most would stay true to their word.
I'd like to say this is true, however people are always looking to move on up in there careers. Jumps are not always sideways, People jump up and take pay cuts to do this every time to go to the airlines.
One of my previous jobs has the best 703 pay scale i saw, treated me amazingly. However when Jazz called I couldn't turn them down. I just wish 5 years later I knew i would have left Jazz as I wouldn't have left this company.
HAHA, hows that for irony. The company I am talking about is Thunder, the previous posters company. Mr BobM
If the money was spent at FlightSafety, call 'em up and get a receipt; in Canada they are 'certified.' If you split from your employer before you finished your bond, bite it. If you got your bond repaid, why are you fussing? Sounds like you did number 2 (pun intended).
4hrstovegas wrote:Did anybody actually read the T4044 docs?? You CANNOT deduct a bond as an employment expense, or anything else. If somebody has managed it and it wasn't noticed, it is just that.
Tuition deductions have to be from an accredited educational institution that is authorized to sign off a T2202A.
This is correct, the course MUST be from an accredited institution. For those who claimed it and "got away with it", count yourself lucky. Just hope you do not get audited within 6 years. People make false claims all of the time and some don't get caught while some do.
Even though the government might try to have you believe things are black and white, there are many areas of the tax code that are not clearly explained. The CRA is not always right just because they say it is so. There are many items that are rarely claimed, and therefore the CRA agents are not at all familiar with what is acceptable. I talked directly with a CRA manager regarding this topic a few years ago who said that if you pay out a training bond, and you have a receipt, and you do the other paperwork, it is definitely claimable. However, it wouldn't surprise me to call them and get a different person who might see it differently.
wallypilot wrote:Even though the government might try to have you believe things are black and white, there are many areas of the tax code that are not clearly explained. The CRA is not always right just because they say it is so. There are many items that are rarely claimed, and therefore the CRA agents are not at all familiar with what is acceptable. I talked directly with a CRA manager regarding this topic a few years ago who said that if you pay out a training bond, and you have a receipt, and you do the other paperwork, it is definitely claimable. However, it wouldn't surprise me to call them and get a different person who might see it differently.
Are you claiming that a Government Agency has different interpretations of their own rules from one region to another or even one person to another. Say it's not true, can you imagine the chaos that would in sue if for example Transport Canada operated like that.........oh wait a minute
I'm just as against training bonds as u are, if not more
No you are not! Or you would not, to use your words, have degraded yourself or the profession.
I continue to be amazed by the rationalizations people use to justify things..
To your OP.. did you pay money out of your pocket , or just sign an agreement to pay back if you left prematurely?
How much (percentage wise) are you out of pocket?
wallypilot wrote:Even though the government might try to have you believe things are black and white, there are many areas of the tax code that are not clearly explained. The CRA is not always right just because they say it is so. There are many items that are rarely claimed, and therefore the CRA agents are not at all familiar with what is acceptable. I talked directly with a CRA manager regarding this topic a few years ago who said that if you pay out a training bond, and you have a receipt, and you do the other paperwork, it is definitely claimable. However, it wouldn't surprise me to call them and get a different person who might see it differently.
Are you claiming that a Government Agency has different interpretations of their own rules from one region to another or even one person to another. Say it's not true, can you imagine the chaos that would in sue if for example Transport Canada operated like that.........oh wait a minute
Well maybe? I have never seen that first hand though....................this week.
Signing something that says you'll stay for a year or two before heading off to sim seems pretty reasonable to me. If you dont want to work there why would you be there?
Actually paying out of pocket or out of future wages for training would make me think pretty hard about whether I wanted to work at a place that has that much trouble retainning pilots/is in a tight spot financaily/ is that cheap.
I could be wrong but wont a ppc in a twin turbine ac cost more than $10 000? Certainly once you add in sim training, airfare to and from, hotel, ride...thier not exactly making money at this.
As for the taxman..they re a bunch of morons. My sympathies.
Just to clarify, Did you have to pay out a bond in order to leave your employer or did you pay the bond at the beginning and remain employed with the employer while they paid it out over a certain period of time.
I was always under the impression that if you walked away from a bond and paid it out in order to get another job and the company got to keep the remainder of the bond that was outstanding, then that would be claimable as you are out of pocket for a training expense, if not then the company received compensation that they should be taxed on?
Interesting... so I can go to company A, get a PPC, quit (pay out my bond).. go get hired at company B w/o training bond can I still claim a tax return for the bond from company A?
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Last edited by Wacko on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am an accountant and I teach university accounting courses. For what it's worth, which isn't much.
You have only signed for a potential liability. (I guess I'm assuming you didn't pay your employer up front, as in a deposit, which is a very different thing.)The reason you cannot deduct a bond is that it has not become an expense until some or all of it has to be paid out by yourself.
My understanding in this is that your employer paid for your training, not you. Obviously the Revies aren't going to allow you to claim that as an expense.
If for some reason the employer takes you to court and collects money from you on the bond, then it becomes an expense in the tax year in which you incurred the expense, i.e. in the training year. You then need to refile for that year.
If you complete the term of the bond, then you're out nothing.
I'm just as against training bonds as u are, if not more
No you are not! Or you would not, to use your words, have degraded yourself or the profession.
I continue to be amazed by the rationalizations people use to justify things..
To your OP.. did you pay money out of your pocket , or just sign an agreement to pay back if you left prematurely?
How much (percentage wise) are you out of pocket?
DeltaHotel wrote:I got a letter in the mail yesterday saying that the tax deduction I claimed last year for a $10 000 training bond I paid to my ex-employer was denied.
I was always under the impression that a training bond was tax deductible!!!
The letter said that the 10 000$ spent on ''training'' was not spent in an approved education facility ....
It now looks like I'm gonna have to repay the 3200$ I had received in tax return ! FML
Any suggestions ? Please.
Ok, let's get this straight. You actually paid your employer for your training? If that's right, that isn't a training "bond". You just paid for your training. Why would your employer be an intermediary in a transaction like that?
Where did you do the training?
A real training bond isn't tax deductible unless you have to pay out under it.
I have not looked into this one way or another. Worst case by taking it to tax court is that you still owe the money. Best case, they give you a little break or set a president. Who knows.
If you pay a training bond you should not only be taxed, but shot as well.
It sounds nice stated that way but how about those airlines that prefers not to hire and train Canadian pilots, opting instead for Temporary Foreign Workers who are already type-rated on the aircraft ?
Which is the lessor of two evils? The airline that hires you for seasonal work but makes you pay a training bond to guarantee their investment, or the airline that does not hire you but hires a Type-rated foreigner instead ?
Which is the lessor of two evils? The airline that hires you for seasonal work but makes you pay a training bond to guarantee their investment, or the airline that does not hire you but hires a Type-rated foreigner instead ?
it's up to you if you wanna be treated like a seasonal Mexican worker in your own country...
the way you think is lowering the bar to such a level that I don"t understand how you can even think like this without considering the long term outcome ?
target fixation may be.
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Last edited by watermeth on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
not saying anything about bonds, but the guy was unemployed for 10 months, sounds like the 'target' may have been some work! id like to see how many of those who say they would rather 'dig ditches' would actually opt for the career change over signing a bond. (provided they were facing a similar situation to the OP)
