AC is such a mess

[LousyFisherman]

I heard you yapping in your cage in cargo the other day

Well of course, that's how AC treats all of their passengers.

The problem at AC is everyone, management and employees.
They demonstrate it to their customers every day.

I will pay any amount not to fly AC. The problem is not the cheap competitors,
it is yourselves.

LF

[WF9F]

Yes it's the employees who are the problem.

And you don't have any problems????Right.

[yycflyguy]

Let the AC pilots strike.

Unfortunately for us as pilots, we are in the (very small) minority that think the government SHOULDN'T have blocked the AC strike.

It is being implied that AC pilots were preparing to strike. That is 100% incorrect. It was the IAMAW that served strike notice. This is the important part people: AC served notice to LOCK OUT THE PILOTS. The pilots have been trying to negotiate a contract with an uncooperative partner that knows the government is in their back pocket.

[ZX14 Rider]

If Harper really wants to help out the lower the damn fuel tax!!!!!! It would be a win win win win situation for everyone in this country. Airlines stay in businesss, employees keep their jobs which coincidentally you pay taxes on. Fuel companies dont suffer. The same amount of fuel still gets pumped. You actually might get a better working relationship between management and employees since they aren't coming to reduce you WAWCON..................wait a minute they will always try and do that. Ticket prices can stay at present rates so the consumer gets the benefit there. If the CEOs were given a chance like this and STILL mess it up, it should be headhunting time!

[The Hammer]

I heard you yapping in your cage in cargo the other day

Sure, but at the end of the flight they let me out of the cage,
and you're still stuck with the same management.

Air Canada has been numerous awards for customer service in the past year alone.

Canada has excellent service in general with both AC & WJ. I agree WJ in general is better but my more recent WJ experiences are narrowing the gap. Are the more senior people slowly running out of gas/kool aid or is AC's fresh blood raising their standard? Probably both are happening. AC's IFE is hands down better. Hop on American or Delta/NW if you want to compare.

December 2011
•Air Canada was voted by the readers of Business Traveler magazine as offering the “Best In-Flight Services in North America” and the “Best North American Airline for International Travel”, for the fourth consecutive year.
•Air Canada was voted the “Best Airline in North America” by the readers of Global Traveler magazine in their annual international survey of business travelers for the third consecutive year.
November 2011
•Air Canada was ranked as one of the Top Five Airlines for In-flight Entertainment by IndependentTraveler.com.
October 2011
•Air Canada was ranked among the Top Five Most Attractive Companies to work for in Canada according to a survey by Randstad Canada and ICMA International.
•Air Canada was named “Canada's Favourite Airline for Business Travel” in the annual Ipsos Reid Business Traveller Survey. Air Canada was preferred by 73 per cent of Canadian business travellers surveyed for 2011, the third consecutive year of improvement in Air Canada's ratings in the national survey.
September 2011
•Air Canada was voted “Best North American Airline” at the 2011 Business Traveller Awards in London, England by the U.K. readers of Business Traveller magazine.
July 2011
•For the fourth consecutive year, Air Canada received top honours for “Best Flight Experience to Canada” in Executive Travel magazine's 2011 Leading Edge Awards readers' survey of frequent international business travellers averaging 38 trips per year.
June 2011
•Air Canada was named “Best International Airline in North America” in the 2011 World Airline Awards conducted by independent research firm Skytrax, in its worldwide survey of more than 18 million travellers.

[Beefitarian]

AC's IFE is hands down better. Hop on American or Delta/NW if you want to compare.

This is like going up to someone that has been punched in the eye and telling them. "That's better than getting kicked in the nuts."

[Slappy the Squirrel]

You can go on and on and debate the whole customer service at AC vs. WJ forever, because it really is based on personal preferences and experiences.
Personally, I find once you're on board the airplane at Air Canada, it is top notch. The flight crews are generally pretty nice, although occasionally you will get a bad apple. Sorry Westjetters, you generally do a good job too, but I grit my teeth everytime I hear a stupid joke at 5am. There is line between being pleasant and being goofy to the point of unprofessional, and I find WJ crosses the line too much. They are getting better, and I'm sure it's a matter of personal preference, but that's what I think.
However, before you actually get to the airplane I find Westjet to be much easier to deal with, as there are a few AC gate agents that ruin the whole experience. Is this the union's fault? I'm not really sure. There does seem to be the mentality there that it's employees vs. the company, and that they're not working for the same goal. That to me is not healthy for the business.

[loopa]

Its time passengers wake up and pay the real price for their god damn tickets and pay their pilots accordingly!

I don't know about the PAX paying real prices? A ticket from YVR-YEG-YVR can cost up to 650 bucks. I think that's a pretty endowed price when you get fed peanuts and a cup of water with 50% ice in it? And this is flying with the nationals carriers Low Cost Model. So then how is it that A/C isn't charging full price tickets when normally they charge more than WJA? Unless a 1.2 trip should cost 1200 in your books? Why is it then that I can book a trip from YVR-DXB in just under 2k with Lufthansa? That should cost more...

My question has always been, why is it that we have operators like Ryan Air overseas playing a cheaper version of the WJA model in Europe, yet you don't hear KLM/DLH/AFA and the boys of those carriers complain about their pay? Yea there was that Lufthansa strike last year but still... it seems to be that they are more content flying for their national carrier while more and more Canadians are finding ways to not be involved with the national carrier.

You know it has gotten sad when people's career goals which used to one day be to fly for the National Airline has now ventured into being excited about regional carriers. I mean flying for a company like Jazz might be the cloud 9 for a Canadian Pilot in today's industry, but even the working conditions at a place like Jazz is pilot's settling for working conditions and pay that really are below what we should be getting paid as a group. Disagree? Then argue the point of how a guy making 40k in YVR is supposed to survive.

While living in Dubai might not be everyone's cup of tea, search "Emirates Flight Deck Crew" on youtube and see what the company offers it's pilots and families. That's what aviation should be about... not the peanuts we are settling for.

But just like 99% of people on this board, we bitch and moan more than actually do something... Guess I'm part of the band wagon.

Rant on!

[WileyCoyote]

It's not just 99% of this board, more like it's the Canadian way. Piss and moan sitting on your hands, waiting for the government or union to save you.

[Beefitarian]

Canadians seem to hate Unions, that's what I hear all the time. They could watch the executives of a company steal money right from them and still say, "Those greedy Union members with their rediculas, pensions and benifits are costing me too much money."

[flyincanuck]

Population base, the geographical dimension of Canada, and tax, are a good start as to why Cdn ticket pricing is the way it is.

Emirates has almost an unlimited cash flow, and the cheapest fuel in the world. Hard to compete against. And like you said, it's not everyones cup-of-tea. There's a reason they wine and dine.

As for sitting on our hands? 97% of 97% of the pilots at AC have chosen to do the opposite.

[loopa]

97% have finally stepped up!

Fair enough on the Dubai model... how do you explain a 23 year old A340 F/O's salary/quality of life at Lufthansa with the Fuel Prices and Economic Situations going on in Europe atm?

[RB211]

?..

Emirates has almost an unlimited cash flow, and the cheapest fuel in the world. Hard to compete against. And like you said, it's not everyones cup-of-tea. There's a reason they wine and dine.
...

Unlimited cash flow? You're implying government subsidies? The Dubai government is the one getting cash from EK in the form of dividends paid from profits.

Cheapest fuel in the world? You are aware Dubai does not refine its own fuel but imports it from places like Singapore?

Just more weak excuses for why AC supposedly can't compete. I would say poorly managed, limited by its Star Alliance obligations and the Canadian Government using it as a cash cow have more to do with it.

[WileyCoyote]

Quite frankly most unions are just as bad as the execs in my experience. Bad companies are supposed to die, and when they don't, it just gets worse. It's time to cut loose the dead weight.

[MacStork]

If Mr. Harper is going to wade into the Air Canada and force a legislated binding arbitration settlement upon the Unions, then he should also fire the whole Board including the Chairman and appoint a new Board who are not given stock options and the opportunity to run the stock up and run off with millions of dollars. This kind of greed is what is destroying America and it is rapidly creeping into Canada.
In other areas, I think Mr. Harper is doing a great job, but I think he is really rolling the dice on this issue, and risking the future of his Government on some really bad decisions.
When you compare the two big Canadian airlines, WestJet is succeeding because of productivity, good management and common sense. Air Canada is failing miserably because of GREED, from both the Management and the Unions. At some point, common sense will prevail and then, there will be some tough decisions that will have to be made. Otherwise, Air Canada and the Conservative Government will become dinasaurs and will slip quietly into the dustbin of history.

[crazy horse]

Atleast the pilots are standing up for their profession. Its time passengers wake up and pay the real price for their god damn tickets and pay their pilots accordingly! I dont care if you get stuck in Cuba on March break because of a strike. You paid 600$ for your ticket+hotel. live with it. Next time pay the right price and you'll get back home.

Did I read this right? The whole mess is the customers fault?

[5dayer]

I think there needs to be a whole culture shift. When you have senior people making 200k+ a year that go months without working.They bid reserve and pass when they get called. You have "sick if required".That is only 2 things I have heard first hand. Yes,management are crooks but the pilot group are not much better. The government should stay out and let it run its course.

[HavaJava]

I think there needs to be a whole culture shift. When you have senior people making 200k+ a year that go months without working.They bid reserve and pass when they get called. You have "sick if required".That is only 2 things I have heard first hand. Yes,management are crooks but the pilot group are not much better. The government should stay out and let it run its course.

Oh man, you are SOOOOOO wrong.

First, there are a very very small percentage of widebody pilots that can work the reserve system to their advantage by being senior reserve. Everyone else on reserve works their asses off...there has been no option on the narrowbody for the last two years for anyone to sit around and not work...almost every pilot on reserve is forced to work to at least DMM (I'm not saying this a bad thing).

Also, in order to have the "perk" of passing, AC pilots have given up so many other reserve perks. For example, at Jazz they have block holder priveleges once a pairing is awarded, A-B-C reserve, all pilots get paid DMM, can't be extended another night unless by pilot option, and all days off are guaranteed. Air Canada has none of this...our reserve rules are draconian! The only thing that we have that Jazz doesn't is the ability to pass according to seniority. Jazz has best-fit. I completely agree with best-fit and would gladly concede to that if it meant we got everything else they have in return.

As for sick-if-required, that is the biggest scapegoat out there. The company has made it seem like a way that pilots can get out of work...it couldn't be further from the truth. If you are sick and the company needs you, you will burn a sick day...plain and simple (by the way, sick days are only worth 2:55 credit on reserve!). There is absolutely no difference between a sick-if-required day and a blockholder's sick day. Sick-if-required is a courtesy provided by the pilots to crew scheduling...nothing more, nothing less. Because of the companies unwarranted attack on sick-if-required through the attendance management program it is now recommended that reserve pilots do not book-off sick until they are informed they are required for duty. As you can see, this will do nothing but harm crew scheduling, however if the company wants to threaten us this is the response they can expect.

[5dayer]

thanks for the info.

[loopa]

If you are sick and the company needs you, you will burn a sick day

So are you suggesting that A/C pilot's fly when they are ill because the company needs them? I thought flying under illness or fatigue or hunger or any of that was outright illegal. Oh wait... this is pilot's we are talking about... The one profession no laws protect. Carry on.

[All Sides]

Thanks HST, that was a real eye opener. I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised how low morale is AC, but I am. I remember my attitude was very similar with a company I worked for that I felt was operating the same way, I eventually left. You might consider the same thing if you are that unhappy, seriously. If the majority of the AC employees feel the same way I think the company is doomed to fail.

I remember being a passenger in the 70's on Pacific Western, CP, Wardair and AC, the former 3 companies always provided better service than AC. If it wasn't for the Feds continuously bailing AC out, they would have failed long ago. In hindsight I don't think de-regulation was good for the industry, it has watered down the wages and working conditions, I also don't think the companies benefited either. I always thought that if I were to do it over I would have went to the airlines, perhaps I did make the right decision by not doing it after all.

I travel a lot on WJ and AC, much to my surprise I don't find WJ a whole lot better than AC as far as service goes. The bottom line, is that it is time for the Feds to let the industry to take its course. Survival of the fittest, that course was set decades ago with de-regulation...... unless they go back to the "good ole days" of regulation. We all know that isn't going to happen.

For those suggesting that the fuel prices should be reduced, you need a reality check. Ain't going to happen.

[Beefitarian]

If you are sick and the company needs you, you will burn a sick day

So are you suggesting that A/C pilot's fly when they are ill because the company needs them?

No.

He meant there is some way you can have your schedule changed so you don't use a sick day up. However if they need you during that scheduled day off and you are sick you will then need to use a sick day even though you were not going to work that day before they said they needed you.

[loopa]

Thank you Beef.

[Beefitarian]

You're welcome. Sometimes stuff I write needs translation too.

[Hawkerflyer]

If the below statement is true....AC has a ways to go before the mess is cleaned up.

Air Canada pilots have always gone the extra mile to keep the operation going. We are constantly doing others people's jobs for them.

We usually show up in the flightdeck about 45mins before the flight and as soon as we sit down we are bombarded with other peoples' problems. Each one of these problems usually requires repeated calls to Operations to correct the problem.

Things like:

- Ground air conditioning is too hot or to cold.

- Catering is incorrect or incomplete.

- Lavs have not been serviced.

- Maintenance issues with cabin services.

- Last minute Maintenance issues requiring crew involvement with Minimum Equipment Lists, Operational procedures, Performance Penalties,

- Crew rest supplies missing from aircraft.

- Last minute change in flight-plan requiring amended fuel load.

- Last minute change in load requiring re-calculation of takeoff data or runway change.

- Delays requiring noise curfew extensions.

- Lack of push-back tractor or ground crew.

- Excetera.......... Excetera..........Excetera..........


All these problems take place while we are supposed to be preparing our aircraft for a safe flight, and before we are even getting paid.


Well it seems most pilot are now fed up and will gladly let these problems run their own course with minimal involvement from us.

Wow! You just listed off the duties of a corporate pilot, good thing you are not above it!