azimuthaviation wrote:Is it even possible to glide a float plane with an engine failure? Has a forced landing in a float or amphib ever been successful on land or water? Or is it pretty rare?
I had to do several to receive my rating.
Generally, floats generate enough lift to offset their weight--which is why lots of planes get an up gross on floats. Amphibs aren't as good, but usually their extra weight takes away from the useful load.
Drag on the other hand isn't so good. The interference drag from the struts, spreader bars and flying wires starts to get into biplane territory.
CAN A FLOAT PLANE GLIDE??? The floats double as a anti gravity device. If the engine quits the gen5A9 anti gravity sensor in the floats activates automatically. Further redundancy is afforded by a back up anti gravity failure unit detector with will jettison floats via explosive bolts if needed.
all i can say is "gliding distance to water"... live by that. There will be exceptions but after take off this is just how everyone should roll. You might have 10 mins added to your leg but the eventual engine failure will have you walking away.
I don’t buy this explanation and neither does anyone I’ve talked to.
They state there was no change in the flight path which was not true, witness statements says he tried to turn.
What we have come up with is as follows.
It was a very hot day.
Aircraft was heavy.
Could not out climb the mountain.
Already too slow and low to drop the nose and turn out.
Stalled when attempting to turn and snap rolled in.
It looks like it was about 2 hours before sunset. I've been in a position where I was flying in mountains 1 hour before sunset into the sun, and it was very difficult to see anything. (In my case I knew precisely where I was, exactly where the terrain was, and what was a safe altitude, and it was only a short flight - however it's still something I won't repeat).
Sun glare could certainly be a factor - perhaps by the time he realised things were going bad he didn't have time to do anything. Certainly there were other factors - he should obviously have never gotten into that situation in the first place.
First off it only took the TSB fifteen months to release their findings.
Second, we now know this will not happen if we make sure there is cloud cover when climbing out of the Okanagan valley west bound in the afternoon that way we won't get blinded by the sun.
Yes it can be done. All about having energy for lift at least equal drag. My recolection of the very short glide is that it didn't seem all that steep. I had climb flap on. I fly over the same swamp daily and often think few things. I never want to try it again. I honestly believe I could just as easily screw it up as not but it can be done with some luck and help from above.
So it seems this crash followed the same sequence of events as so many that came before in this area. Moral of the story don't try to walk up a down esculator so to speak get your altitude in the valley before proceeding enroute.
Perhaps thread drift... (and not at all a comment with respect to the accident) - (so, yeah, it's thread drift!)...
Practice gliding of floatplanes is worthwhile, for when you might need it. It can be quite different than the glide in the landplane version you practiced decades ago. I glide to a water landing regularly, and those landings always remind me of helicopter autorotation training.
Do not "trim for best glide speed", then look for some far away perfect place to circuit around and land from a "best glide". Pick the place right in front of you, and build up some inertia in a fast glide, so that you'll have some speed to trade for a good flare and touchdown. Not much point in gliding to short final at "best glide" speed to find that when you go to flare, there is nothing left, and you stall and slam into the water.
A power off water landing can be as perfect as a power on landing, it's just that the transition through the flare happens faster, so you have to be more precise with timing.
Precise control in final approach is also important, as you would rather over run, and hit the far trees at 15 knots, than the near ones at 65 knots! Give yourself the reserve to assure that you don't undershoot.
Bear in mind that a glide approach and safe glassy water landing are mutually exclusive. Look for the place with ripples.
I guess what I’m getting at is why the TSB is covering for pilot error with what could only be a contributing factor (the sun) due to the knowledge we have from the area and witness statements.
Everyone is guilty of thread drift but lets start a new post for float plane glide ratio’s.
would a dhc 2 that old still develop 400 horsepower at sea level? The report said something like the powerplant was still developing turns(cutting thru a 7 inch logpole pine); and certainly it was a hot day, but i fail to understand failure to get at least 6000 ft asl before even attempting to turn into that grade.
Then the report points out that it was his first time in that heavier aircraft(for that route). 182 ss said it was heavy(as affirmed by the report), but with only 2 passengers, what gives? With 30 map and 2000 rpm., and 26 minutes airborne, how come the aircraft only managed to be just under HWY 97?
