AirSprint Fleet Transition

[X-Savior]

[Changes in Latitudes]

Thank you for confirming what I've heard about your company. I respect the fact that you did not lie about it when I brought it up, however, I have no respect for anyone that asks his/her corporate pilots, to clean the airplanes.

Jack give your head a shake. Or actually, go wander around some of the lovely charter operators at your nearest large airport. I've been through many, and the things these companies ask their crews to put up with go well beyond a little light clean-up. I have many friends at Air Sprint that are quite happy there and don't seem to mind tidying up the aircraft after they have flown it.

Air Sprint offers a far better lifestyle than many operations out there right now. You dismiss a position like this over emptying the garbage, a quick vacuum, and crossing the seatbelts at the end of the day? You're out of touch with this industry if you think that is what constitutes poor treatment.

[Sulako]

Thank you for confirming what I've heard about your company. I respect the fact that you did not lie about it when I brought it up, however, I have no respect for anyone that asks his/her corporate pilots, to clean the airplanes.

-1

I take pride in the planes I fly, and I'm happy to help keep them clean. I don't scrub the belly, but I certainly don't begrudge restocking snacks, taking out the garbage and maybe even wiping off the occasional oil streak from the engine cowl. They don't take much time or effort, and it makes the plane look nice.

[aerosexual]

At my last corporate gig, when I went in to do elementary maintenance training, there was an airplane doing a C-Check. The maintenance boss had me scrub down the inside of the toilet and lav since I was already there. This was before things started picking up again and I had been looking for a flying job for a long time, so I wasn't in a position to say much. That in my opinion is taking things too far - but what AS is asking is very much normal and in my opinion acceptable for a corporate gig. It can be a pain vacuuming the interior after transporting dogs around though lol.

[MikeLima]

AirSprint HR

Please check your PM.
Thanks

MikeLima

[Jack Klumpus]

There lies the problem with our industry. It's the pilots themselves. One has to differentiate jobs, even as pilots. Flying the bush, single pilot IFR in a in the 31-350, sure I cleaned, groomed, re-stocked, fuel, de-iced, etc. years later, left seat at a 705, I didn't expect to have to groom.

One needs to respect the job and their profession. When the environment and nature of the job required it, heck yeah I did it, because I believed in why it had to be done. However, flying for a multi-million company, into cities, and being in charge of shiny new jets, I don't agree with it.

Each and every ones of us has different standards and beliefs. I've worked different aspects in my aviation career, and I dont look down at any position, since each one has an integral part to play.

If some feel pride and joy after a 14 hr duty day to clean the airplane, because the company does not want to hire or contract for the grooming position, then that is your problem, or in your case(s), more of a 'pride' and fulfilling part of your job.

My pride derives in everything I do related to my job.

[Jack Klumpus]

but what AS is asking is very much normal and in my opinion acceptable for a corporate .

Who cleans the hangar for AS?

[Big Bird]

but what AS is asking is very much normal and in my opinion acceptable for a corporate .

Who cleans the hangar for AS?

The Job is contracted out.

The whole cleaning airplanes “in house " keeps operating costs lower which gives company more cash flow. It wasn’t too long ago when AirSprint introduced a new pay scale. This improvement involved many Pilots receiving a 20-25k raise overnight. At the end of the day I’m just a Pilot and not a Prince. I have never been too good to wipe an airplane down.(Truthfully I’d get a backhand from my parents with that kind of attitude..... hahahah) On that note I was surprised to hear my dentist say the other day he takes part in cleaning duties along with his staff before he leaves the office. I found that classy. The same goes for management. If I fly with the Chief Pilot, VP or Base Manager, they all participate in cleaning.

The above message is not geared towards anyone specifically. It’s just a general comment so please no attacking. Lets keep it simple. Hope everyone is enjoying the summer.

[AirSprint HR]

To answer a few questions that have come up:

- Over the next few weeks we will be putting a plan together to determine how every one of our pilots will be positioned through the fleet transition. With that will come an initial estimate about how many external positions will be required. This plan will be continuously evaluated and amended over the next two years. We will likely start contacting people over the next few weeks, but this will be a continuing process over the next two years so if you do not get contacted for an interview right away, please keep your resume up to date with us if you are interested. I will do my best to provide regular updates to this thread when we are focusing on a specific need (position/base etc).

- Our hangar is cleaned by a professional cleaning company and has been for as long as I can remember.

- Employing full-time aircraft groomers is an option that is considered about once a year. At every evaluation, the decision is made to continue with the present setup as my preference is to improve the salaries/benefits of our current employees instead of adding full-time groomers. Since the start of the downturn in 2008, our Pilots and AMEs have received significant salary increases, as well as increases to per-diems and benefits. These improvements would have been reduced had full-time groomers been hired.

Regards,

AirSprint HR

[X-Savior]

Thank you very much!

The communication has been GREATLY appreciated and look forward to the opportunity to come work for you.

[co-joe]

...
If some feel pride and joy after a 14 hr duty day to clean the airplane, because the company does not want to hire or contract for the grooming position, then that is your problem, or in your case(s), more of a 'pride' and fulfilling part of your job.

My pride derives in everything I do related to my job.

You lost me there. 14 hour duty days are supposed to be extendable to 15 under "unforseen operational circumstances". A dirty airplane is NOT an unforseen operational circumstance.

But hey if I get into the hangar after all my paperwork is done and have time inside my duty day, or need to come in on a non flying day to clean my airplane, I'm right with you bucket and scrub brush in hand and a smile on my face. After 14, I'm going home. See you tomorrow.

[Cat Driver]

Interested applicants should send their resume and cover letter to careers@airsprint.com.

Thank you.

James Elian
VP, Operations
AirSprint Inc.

Hi James!

After reading this thread just thought I would like to comment on your offer of employment and your terms.

If I ever decided to un-retire and wanted a flying job I would work for you in a heart beat.

. E.

[Krimson]

To the guys arguing about cleaning the plane, there is so much more wrong with aviation as it is, instead of arguing over something so insignificant as this, how about trying to fix the large problems with many of the of the other operators out there. To be complaining about having to clean up after yourself, you should take a look over the other side of the fence and count your blessings.

Good on them for having the pride to come on here and correct false statements. You don't see a lot of operators having an open two-way communication with their pilots.

[X-Savior]

Good on them for having the pride to come on here and correct false statements. You don't see a lot of operators having an open two-way communication with their pilots.

[AirSprint HR]

Interested applicants should send their resume and cover letter to careers@airsprint.com.

Thank you.

James Elian
VP, Operations
AirSprint Inc.

Hi James!

After reading this thread just thought I would like to comment on your offer of employment and your terms.

If I ever decided to un-retire and wanted a flying job I would work for you in a heart beat.

. E.

Thank you .. I'm happy to hear that.

Regards,

James

[Cat Driver]

There was a time James when we were taught work ethics.

[Jack Klumpus]

Work ethics? So by force you want to push the idea that pilots should clean/wash the airplane? Why doesn't every airline do this? Why doesn't the f/o jump out and marshall the plane? Get the bags out, re-fuel the plane, grab the catering, and board the pax? In the meantime, the captain can groom, clean the lav, re-stock the catering, and wipe off the occasional oil off the side

Just to be clear, the op,did not mention the part of the job until they were asked. You posted the salary scale, the schedule, etc., yet you did not mention this part of the pilots duty. Say it how it is from the beginning, unless of course there's something to be ashamed of. Also, all the posters attacking me here want to force their ideas and 'work ethics' on me. I'm stating what I think, I'm not forcing it on anyone.

This doesn't count as cleaning up after yourself, as one mentioned. Each and every single person here would be against this idea the second big red calls you for an interview. Spare me this hypocrisy.

The . norris of pilots! Did you come out to play, This coming from the one person who keeps on claiming how much money you made as a pilot and that the new generation ruined it all? Which one is it now? You want to be the cleaner or the professional pilot that you always speak about? We're you asked to groom the space shuttle after your mars landing?

[Slats]

Calm down. You have made your point: you feel that you are above cleaning the aircraft. Not everyone feels that way. And don't go calling others out as hypocrites. You said yourself that when you flew "the bush" in a Navajo you did that stuff. So at what point does it cease to be okay? 704? 705? Jets? When "big red calls you for an interview?" Oh wait, they don't pay as well.
Maybe you are too much of a prima donna to wash your aircraft. Maybe you just couldn't be bothered to take pride in your machine. Or maybe your aircraft is just too physically large for you to look after. Yes, at some point aircraft just get too large for the crew to do this stuff, but that line is somewhere north of a PC-12. At any rate, as much as you might try to deny it, by getting all upset and ranting and raving about this issue which does not affect you, you ARE trying to force your ideas on us. Fortunately, there is still hope for pilots though, as it would appear that there are some still intelligent enough to recognize that being responsible for the general cleanliness and tidiness of the small aircraft that is both your office and your instrument, is not what makes a job bad.

[Sulako]

//upset

I edited the quote for clarity. Seriously though - here's a quick review of corporate flying - I feel entitled to say that as I have been flying corporate for the past 7 years, and I hope I'm not totally clueless in how it works.

1. We fly airplanes for rich people. We help cater to their every whim, ie the booze they want on board, the snacks they want on board, and how adventurous they are re: weather etc. To them, we are no different from the person who drives their limo or the person who takes care of their kids. I'm okay with that.
2. In return, we get to go on other people's vacations (phrase stolen from frontside_air). I have grown seriously fat living this lifestyle. As of today, I need to lose about 15 lbs, and it's a direct result of flying.
3. Cleaning my baby is not a demeaning chore. I take pride in the metal I fly, and I want her to look good. It's also a really small price to pay for the lifestyle I enjoy. Oh, and it literally takes less than two minutes, normally. Filling out the logbook generally takes more time, with all the math and whatnot.
4. When all is said and done, I get paid a pretty ridiculous amount per hour for the time I spend airborne, and the least I can do is make the plane pretty again after a flight, especially since it's about 50/50 that I will be doing the next flight, and I want her to look nice for the next leg.

Let's get a grip on what we actually do - we remove the snack wrappers, we remove the empty pop cans and perhaps the shot glasses etc. There are also a couple of pounds of newspapers, but that's okay because I work out. From time to time there are catering boxes that I need to move to the forward exit of the plane where the ramp rat takes them away. Also, I need to dump the coffee / ice. That involves pitching the coffee out on the ramp, and lifting a lever to drain the water from the cold tray in the commissary containers. It's tough, but I get by.

Also, from time to time I choose to clean the windshields - that takes about 2 minutes extra, but it helps me see other aircraft and not die, so I consider it time well spent. That's the sort of thing that I'd honestly rather do myself, because then I know it's done right.

[Cough Syrup]

Are we just talking about getting out after a flight and wiping the bottom of the engine cowls and removing the newspapers, or a full-on clean like gear doors, gears, nose, all windows, etc?

[Jack Klumpus]

Calm down. You have made your point: you feel that you are above cleaning the aircraft. Not everyone feels that way. And don't go calling others out as hypocrites. You said yourself that when you flew "the bush" in a Navajo you did that stuff. So at what point does it cease to be okay? 704? 705? Jets? When "big red calls you for an interview?" Oh wait, they don't pay as well.
Maybe you are too much of a prima donna to wash your aircraft. Maybe you just couldn't be bothered to take pride in your machine. Or maybe your aircraft is just too physically large for you to look after. Yes, at some point aircraft just get too large for the crew to do this stuff, but that line is somewhere north of a PC-12. At any rate, as much as you might try to deny it, by getting all upset and ranting and raving about this issue which does not affect you, you ARE trying to force your ideas on us. Fortunately, there is still hope for pilots though, as it would appear that there are some still intelligent enough to recognize that being responsible for the general cleanliness and tidiness of the small aircraft that is both your office and your instrument, is not what makes a job bad.
And lay off ., he said nothing untoward to you.

That's quite the assumptions you made there. What made you think that I feel I am above cleaning an airplane? I clearly said that when the resources are available, I am against it, however, when being in the bush, as I was, the resources were not there, hence I did it, and with a smile on my face, because I believed in what I was doing.

I also did not work for a multi-million company, who's advertising for brand new shiny (depending on your detailing expertise) jets. I worked for a mom'n'pop operation. One has to be realistic. Also, one has to know when they are being taken advantage of.

Clearly, you feel lucky to be cleaning an airplane for a living, and there is nothing wrong with that, if that's what you were hired for. Washing an airplane that you flew makes you feel proud? You see, I'm proud of the work that I do, the safety, the CRM, the experience, and the customer service that I provide, on a daily basis. I take pride in making my whole crew feeling comfortable, confident, appreciated, and a useful part of the team. I take pride in helping the groomers, the rampies, and going out of my way to get the job done. I do so because I want to help, not because the company doesn't hire others to do the job, and require me to do so. I take pride by helping others, because at one point, I was there, and I did those jobs. This is the difference between us. Call me princess or suzy or sally, it doesn't change the fact that we both see our profession in a different light.

All of this of course, is in my 'prima donna', opinion. Afterall, I can't be cleaning a hangar while I'm in my prada shoes, those buggers are quite slippery on a contaminated surface.

I edited the quote for clarity. Seriously though - here's a quick review of corporate flying - I feel entitled to say that as I have been flying corporate for the past 7 years, and I hope I'm not totally clueless in how it works.

the chores you mentioned hardly qualify cleaning an airplane. Who vaccumes the carpet? shampoes it? Who cleans the lav? Who washes the exterior of the airplane? If someone gets sick, who is it that cleans the mess?

I initially brought this topic up, because AS was known to have the pilots clean, and by clean I mean wash the airplanes, and clean the hangars. If this practice has changed, then good for them.

[Jack Klumpus]

Are we just talking about getting out after a flight and wiping the bottom of the engine cowls and removing the newspapers, or a full-on clean like gear doors, gears, nose, all windows, etc?

I brought this topic up because I had friends who worked at AS (years ago), who claimed that they had to do the full blown washing (hosing down, scrubbing) of the airplane and the hangar (when required).

Removing papers, and crossing seat belts, is not what I am reffering to.

[arctic navigator]

Do you wash and vacuum your car, or maybe even go so far as detail it on occasion? Tidy up the garbage at the end of a trip? What about your house?

There is a definite pride of ownership flying corporate, however its not for everyone. For some AirSprint will be a stepping stone to bigger equipment, but for the guys that have been there for a few years, on an hourly basis, they're making more $ than a 777 Captain at Air Canada, and the layovers are definitely better in many respects.

I heard a joke a while ago, Whats the difference between a plane and the pilots flying it? The plane quits whining when it lands in Hawaii.

Everyone's gonna think something could be better about their job. More money, bigger equipment, less flying, better (read hotter) flighty's, you name it, but overall flying good, new, well maintained equipment for a good wage sounds like a pretty good job to me.

[NovaBoy]

Guys, most corporate flight departments expect their crews to tidy up the airplanes, I was doing it at Air Nova, at Westjet, and I'm still doing it now on the Falcon 2000. Its no big deal. If you are afraid of getting your hands dirty, or think it's beneath you to clean an airplane don't apply for the job.

Air Sprint sounds like a good place to work, especially now that it is going all jet. Not many companies have the chief pilot/HR posting on a forum, with the exception of DaveP from Westjet. If I were looking to start my aviation career again I'd seriously look at Air Sprint over the airlines, where it is a race to the bottom.

[Axial Flow]

Who else is going to clean up the plane when you are possibly on the road for days at a time without seeing home base ? Should the company contract cleaners at each stop ? It's part of the service you are providing, just like if you are flying an otter, van, dc3 where you are the one loading it because it is part of your job.

You usually aren't doing 10 legs a day or flying 10 hours in the corporate world so when you get to Florida on a 3 day lay over taking 30 minutes to keep your work area clean is not a big deal. Then after sitting for 3 days, flying 4 hours to home base and having to wash the airplane which takes at max an hour....maybe you need to experience it before you realize it's just part of the corporate world and if you are lazy and don't like to take pride in your work than stay at the job you are doing.