Pilots slam use of foreign seasonal workers

[iflyforpie]

I'll do it for $500.

[Beefitarian]

^ Foreigner from B.C.

[Jean-Luc Monette]

Where and how does one draw the line ?

Maybe when a competitor is not raising all the fuss, and it really is about foreign pilots and not the competitor trying to shrink seat capacity in the winter.......just saying is all.

Funny that you should say that, trey... I know of a few SG and CJ pilots who completely agree with, what you call, "the competition" is saying....

If you think you are above this issue, then good for you.

This is bigger than what you play it to be.

[gonnabeapilot]

Here's a challenge.

I'd like to spend summers by my lake, so...

Sun Wing, or whoever. You type me on your airplane. Cover my expenses. Base me where I can commute from YWG. pay me your regular scale FO rate. I'll give you three seasons of a Canadian in the right seat.
What you get in return. A guy with a CDN passport, more than 25000 hours of flight time, CAT 1 medical. Three seasons of not needing to hire a Forign pilot.
What I get? Three summers on my lake in semi-retirement. Perhaps more, but I'd be willing to commit to three. Of course, at my age, I'd need pee breaks every couple of hours. LOL!
Any takers? I'm guessing there are others who would make you the same offer. Frankly, I don't see a down side to an airline to take me up on this?

Challenge has already been accepted and I'm sorry to tell you that you missesd the boat. Sunwing has already hired 20 Canadian contract pilots for this winter season. Sunwing is paying for the type rating, they will be YYZ based F/Os, with comparable pay to Sunwing pilots, however they have been made aware that they will not be required for the summer months. I believe Sunwing is only asking for a 2 winter commitment as well, not 3. Supposedly 20 is the maximum number Sunwing has the ability to train prior to this winter season but don't be surprised to see this program expanded in coming years as Sunwing tries to reduce the number of foreign pilots being used for its winter ops.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

A quote from the article:

"Sunwing is not the reason that other Canadian pilots are unemployed,” he said (Sunwing president Mark Williams), noting the company will still have to bring in about 130 foreign pilots this winter

Those 130 foreign pilots Mark Williams mentions, do not include the other 60 to 75 Foreign pilots who will come to Canada at the controls of the 5 B-737NGs he intends to Wet-Lease this winter.

Remember the internal memo ?

This winter we will operate a fleet of 24 B737s. In addition to the 24 aircraft, we will be bringing in an additional 5 aircraft on wet lease for a total of 29 planes. These 29 aircraft will be operated with our flight attendants

Neither do those 130 foreign pilots include the 24 to 30 Portuguese pilots who are now in Canada flying those two Wet-Leased 767s (for a total of 214 to 235 foreign pilots).

Mark Williams seems to have a rare form of mathematical mental dysfunction when it comes to counting pilots in the reciprocity scheme. He does not count those Foreign pilots who come to Canada for Sunwing at the controls of Wet-Leased aircraft, for they do not need a CIC Work Permit, so he can hide those from CIC. But he does count in the reciprocity arithmetic, and does advises CIC of those Sunwing pilots that go to Europe at the controls of aircraft that Sunwing Wet-Leases there (which numbered around 50, I don't have exact figures).

Again from the article:

As for counting wet lease pilots towards fulfilling its reciprocity obligations, he sees nothing wrong with that, noting “the most important thing is we are creating work for Canadians overseas.”

So Wet-Lease pilots don't count when they make Sunwing look bad, and they do count when they can make Sunwing look like it is fulfilling its CIC reciprocity obligations.

He sees nothing wrong with it. Well I still remember my grade school arithmetic.

214 - ±50 = ±164 deficit for my low foreign pilot estimate and 235 - ±50 = ±185 deficit for my high foreign pilot estimate.

Not that even with the new hires, full time and part time, Sunwing will only employ about 185 pilots, meaning that they will again have in Canada more Foreign pilots than they employ Canadian pilots. That alone should show any CIC officer that any claim to reciprocity is impossible.

In reality, because the reciprocity scheme is specifically a Work Permit requirement and that Wet-Lease pilots do not require a Work Permit, they should never be counted.

In that case, 130 foreign pilots - Zero Canadian pilots sent to Europe to fly Foreign registered aircraft this year = a 130 pilot deficit.

So any way one counts , the deficit is superior to 130. So CIC should not allow Sunwing any foreign pilot Work Permits whatsoever under the reciprocity deal.

I can't wait to see what CIC will actually do and how they will justify it if they do provide Foreign pilots with work permits under the reciprocal deal this winter. One thing CIC cannot possibly attempt to do this year is plead ignorance. I made sure of that.

[ea306]

Gilles,
The pilot group does not want to fly foreign registered aircraft. Why? Degradation of working conditions. Wet leasing into Europe is preferred over operating Foreign Reg on a License Validation for those of us going overseas. We would like to see even more Canadian Wet Leasing overseas providing more quality Canadian Pilot jobs. No F Reg flying thank you. Absolutely we would prefer to see there to be more equal numbers of course... The trend is going in that direction. As I have said before. We shall see.

Often you mention that Air Transat the Airline have no say over Air Transat the tour operator as to the lift arrangements made with other airlines such as Thomas Cook in the past and CanJet at the present. This is also the same with SunWing. But you already know this Gilles.

SunWing Airlines has a single customer: Sunwing Travel Group who in turn procures lift from various sources as needed. SunWing Airlines, just like Air Transat (the airline), can also be expanded and contracted like an accordion in order to be as cost effective as possible. The Only difference is we so far have been able to have a formula to avoid layoffs.

You suggested in one of your recent posts that you would even be happy if SunWing would contract Air Transat with 1 A330 as opposed to two B737-800. I doubt that Air Transat would be able to provide a costing that competes...but who knows. Have you suggested to your own company that they replace your contracted out flying to third party providers and employ your own company aircraft and crews?

Perhaps your focus could also be on your own house to get it in order. Perhaps if some of your contracted out fly was brought back, CanJet would not be needing to hire Foreign Pilots and Air Transat can keep all their pilots working. Now that sounds like that would go a long way to sorting out keeping more Canadians working.

From what I see, Sunwing is working on getting its house in order. Perhaps you guys should be focussing on doing the same at your shop too.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Are you suggesting that it's cheaper to send two 737s back to back to the Caribbean instead of one A-330 ?

[gonnabeapilot]

From what we have been told from management, yes it is much cheaper to send two 737s back to back to the Caribbean instead of one A-330. This has been quoted as the biggest reason why Sunwing has not expanded into wide-body flying. The work is there for the wide-bodies in the summer across the Atlantic but the cost is prohibitive to use wide-bodies to the Caribbean in the winter. It's also been quoted as one of the largest contributing factors as to why Sunwing is able to profitably compete against Air Transat on the Caribbean routes. Unfortunately I don't have any more to back it up other than management's say-so but the strategy does seem to be paying off for Sunwing so far.