Chisel Charters?

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pilotidentity
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by pilotidentity »

Right now is the best time to run a Chisel, TC doesn't have the resources to shut them down. Not saying its a good idea - just don't expect anything to be done about it.
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mcrit
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by mcrit »

Ya'know.....maybe instead of warming up the tar and feathers for this chisel charter fellow, we should instead turn our anger on the bureaucrats who have made getting an OC nigh on impossible.
Enter Cat and Hedley stage right.........
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GUMPS
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by GUMPS »

mcrit wrote:Ya'know.....maybe instead of warming up the tar and feathers for this chisel charter fellow, we should instead turn our anger on the bureaucrats who have made getting an OC nigh on impossible.
Enter Cat and Hedley stage right.........
You really think these guys trying make money building up their PIC time for their CPL even know where to even start looking into getting an OC?
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beaverbob
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by beaverbob »

A number of airlines in Canada started out as chisel charter companies. That what happens when you started your business in past years and it took two or more years to get approval. Happened to me in 1978. I had to fly to pay for the plane I had bought and had to have in advance to get the OC. So, Yes, I was a chisel charter operator for awhile.
Bob
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GUMPS
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by GUMPS »

beaverbob wrote:A number of airlines in Canada started out as chisel charter companies. That what happens when you started your business in past years and it took two or more years to get approval. Happened to me in 1978. I had to fly to pay for the plane I had bought and had to have in advance to get the OC. So, Yes, I was a chisel charter operator for awhile.
Bob
Did you own the airplane or were you doing these charters out of flight school's aircraft? Can't be sure that's what is going on with these specific kijiji adds but it has been the case in many of the adds in previous months.
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beaverbob
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by beaverbob »

Was not trying to compare to the above, only trying to point out that many chisel charter operators became ligitimate operators after a time. I owned my plane with a bank loan that had to be paid. It took a minimum of two years to get charter approval befor deregulation.
Bob
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MrWings
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by MrWings »

pilotidentity wrote:Right now is the best time to run a Chisel, TC doesn't have the resources to shut them down. Not saying its a good idea - just don't expect anything to be done about it.
Doesn't take much for them to suspend a licence.
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'CauseTheCaravanCan
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by 'CauseTheCaravanCan »

beaverbob wrote:A number of airlines in Canada started out as chisel charter companies. That what happens when you started your business in past years and it took two or more years to get approval. Happened to me in 1978. I had to fly to pay for the plane I had bought and had to have in advance to get the OC. So, Yes, I was a chisel charter operator for awhile.
Bob
WITCH!!!!
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co-joe
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by co-joe »

Don't you mean which?
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mcrit
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by mcrit »

My guess is that he meant witch as in witch hunt.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by Cat Driver »

Let me get this straight.

There are some here who think so called chisel charters are reason to want the people doing it to be " busted " .

So to be a good Canadian you must jump through all the hoops by getting the proper pilots license and airplane and all the other things TC requires as well as providing reams of paper work that will be returned because some bureaucrat does not like the way you worded it.

You can wait for up to two years while they push paper to approve your O.C.

If you do any flying during that time frame you are a bad Canadian, because you are going broke waiting?

The only reason I can see not to do so called chisel charters is the liability risk if you have an accident.
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Meatservo
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by Meatservo »

Yeah, that's YOU. I see plenty the matter with some mentally deficient whacko with a 185 undercutting all the legitimate float carriers in the area by "secretly" taking people to their lodges or whatever, burning Mogas without an STC, maintaining his plane to private standards (if at all) and never having participated in any kind of recurrent training or evaluation since he got his license thirty years ago (if he ever did) You know they're out there, and it's not right. Personally I think it's a travesty that TC can't process an application for an OC in a timely fashion, and I agree that they are a bunch of boobs for the most part, but I regard their standards as MINIMUM, and there are plenty of guys out there who don't even reach those standards, and there is no way to regulate that unless a few of them get turned in every now and then. I have sympathy for someone who has done everything right and needs to start flying his plane in order to stay out of the poorhouse, but you know as well as I do that most "chisel charterers' are just bank-beavers who can't be bothered to do things the right way.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by Cat Driver »

Your points are valid meatservo, and I'm with you as far as most chisel charterers go, they are maggots.

However the truth is the maggots can and do get O. C.'s and operate in complete disregard for all the rules and regulations once they get the certificates.

Seems the O.C.' s are not much more than make work projcets for T.C.'s drones.
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cdnpilot77
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by cdnpilot77 »

Cat Driver wrote:
However the truth is the maggots can and do get O. C.'s and operate in complete disregard for all the rules and regulations once they get the certificates.

And some are allowed to keep them after multiple fatal accidents due to the company culture and complete disregard for safety!
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Cat Driver
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by Cat Driver »

And some are allowed to keep them after multiple fatal accidents due to the company culture and complete disregard for safety!
Just imagine how much better aviation would be if T.C. were to be as diligent at enforcing their rules as they are nit picking the wording in the O.C. applications.
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beaverbob
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Re: Chisel Charters?

Post by beaverbob »

Cat Driver wrote:Let me get this straight..
That is accurate Cat. at least when I first made my application in 1977. It took me two years from application date to get approval to operate, but I was required to get the plane registered about 8 months before approval. So I bought and registered my new plane as a commercial plane as requested, only to receive a new letter telling me that without a charter license, I could only register my plane privately, which I did. Finally after a period of time I was told I required a commercially registered plane in order to get approval, which I then did by reregistering my plane again for the 3rd time. Then i spent a few more weeks getting the operating certificate, insurance etc. Now do you see why it is sometimes necessary to "chisel" charter for at least a few months?

Since then the charter license application has been streamlined and it is only required to go through the operating certificate application, then the charter license approval is much quicker by the CTA with proof of insurance and a tariff.

Bob


PS re: WITCH!!!!, I have been called worse things.
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