How long to make 50k-60k as a pilot ?

[ea306]

@Dave_091:
I never did in the turboprop world.... Only about 60K towards the end of my Turbo prop days in the early 1990s.
Yesterday's 60K might well be today's 40K with the cost of living increases.

[altiplano]

Yesterday's 60K might well be today's 40K with the cost of living increases.

I think you mean the other way around...

[Meatservo]

Pilots salaries should be ruled by weight.

Agreed.

Oh, you agree with this do you? How did you come by this opinion? There are lots of things that weigh more than a firecat, for instance. Should they all be better paying jobs too?

A king air 350 weighs more than a twin otter. Do some research into what these types are typically used for and tell me which job you think should pay better.

Weight is a ridiculous factor unless all other things are taken as equal. A pilot's fair compensation cannot be merely a fixed percentage of what the plane is capable of earning. Or if it is, anyone who is using an aeroplane for anything other than straight runway-to-runway ass-&-trash hauling should really take a look at how he is being taken advantage of. If that's really your attitude, beef, you'd make a great executive!

[Beefitarian]

Well it certainly is not a joke because I weigh more than any other pilot here.

[Duncan Idaho]

LOL. I get it now. Nice Beef.

UM! No pilot salaries should not be ruled by A/C weight. Does a Seneca grad direct entry onto the RJ at Jazz deserve more than senior training captains on say a Saab, when the new hire can't even operate the plane by himself in a safe manner? Or what about a guy flying in the high arctic on a twin otter.. should he make less than the BE20 captain flying mail from Saskatoon to Regina? Probably not. Not only does the twin otter guy have a more refined skill set he probably makes his company 10 times more money per day, so why shouldn't he make more too? His job is harder, more dangerous and he is more experienced.

If there's an easy gig down south that anyone and their mother can do, the job will naturally be lower paid. If another one is in a completely miserable town with 3 days of summer a year and no qualified guys applying, it will likely be higher paying. So how long to make 50 to 60k? Exactly as long as it takes you.. it depends completely on your decisions. I know guys who broke it their first year and others who won't break it for 10 years because they want to stay put where they are. Neither way's better but that's just what happens.

For me it was fourth season, was getting about 65 and then fifth one up to around 85. The heaviest airplane I flew was also the lowest paying, and there's guys I trained on single-pilot VFR airplanes who are still there and making significantly more than I am.

Shrug! It's a toss up.

[ahramin]

50k mark, 1.5 years.

With all due respect AuxBatOn, you do a heck of a lot more than fly for your living. How many hours a week do you spend actually in the immediate vicinity of the aircraft?

[AuxBatOn]

50k mark, 1.5 years.

With all due respect AuxBatOn, you do a heck of a lot more than fly for your living. How many hours a week do you spend actually in the immediate vicinity of the aircraft?

I flew around 40 hours in October and average 20-25 hours a month. 40 hours is approx. 30 flights. Honestly, this is more than enough for me. My primary job is being a pilot. I flew 325 hours in 2011 and I am headed for a 250-270 hours year.

[Colonel Sanders]

My primary job is being a pilot

Yes, at the moment. Historically people in your position
have spent many 3 year periods driving a desk, and then
they are likely as not out the door at age 45, to start all
over again as a civilian.

"Flying Captains" don't get promoted. Career suicide.

An acquaintance of mine spent 3 years teaching at RMC
instead of flying F-104's over in Europe. That was the
choice he had to make, if he wanted to get promoted
(and not retired early).

[complexintentions]

There is money to be made, but you may have to leave Canada to make it. I assume the 50-60k figure asked in the title is gross? The real question should be the net figure, the only thing that counts these days is what you can put in your pocket at the end of the month. Real estate in Canada will be worth a lot less going forward, so asset deflation combined with price inflation make being liquid the most important thing of all. And liquid in this sense will only be cash left over after taxes and expenses.

Expat gigs in tax-free environments may have wages that seem low for the position, but when you get to keep it all, and the company pays the living expenses, it really illustrates just how much money in the West goes to overhead. Granted, you get a lot for the taxes you pay, generally. But they've got nowhere to go but up with the demographic time bomb ahead.

Oh and it took about six years to get to the 50-60k mark in Canada. But that experience paved the way to make more than that in year 1 overseas, and several years on, about 4x that (if expressed as a gross salary at a marginal tax rate of a guesstimated 50%).

[good_idea]

It took me about 4 years to clear the 50k mark. After that I have had considerable increases in pay... Also considerable increases in responsibility.

Keep working hard... Someone will notice

[Colonel Sanders]

Keep working hard... Someone will notice

While that sounds good, I might mention that it shows a
complete lack of knowledge of the fundamental economics
that drives your industry.

The economy is cyclical. The airline industry, even more so.

When times are bad, it doesn't matter if you have 10,000
hours in the space shuttle, 3 moon landings and perfect teeth -
you're not going to get hired, because no one is hiring.

However, when times are good, the gates are opened, and if
you can see lightning and hear thunder, you're our boy.

I keep telling people this but they just don't get it:

The best predictor of your success is the year you were born in.

I don't want to make you feel bad, but what determines how
successful you are, is events beyond your control. Far better
pilots than you have never found work, and far crappier pilots
than you are in the left seat of Boeings and Airbuses right now.

I know that's not fair, but that's the way the world is.

How soon you make $50-$60k has absolutely nothing to do
with how well you hand-fly an ILS, and everything to do with
the fundamental economic demand for the commodity that
you are trying to sell - your skills as a pilot.

I apologize for bringing up economics in a discussion about
money. I can see how that is going to anger people.

[Beefitarian]

Awesome post colonel!

When times are bad, it doesn't matter if you have 10,000
hours in the space shuttle, 3 moon landings and perfect teeth -
you're not going to get hired, because no one is hiring.

Rats, I don't have those. Then again I was busy being married and buying a stupid house and well overpriced 75% depreciated motorcycle instead of finishing my CPL back before my ADD got completely out of hand, so there's that.

[ahramin]

50k mark, 1.5 years.

With all due respect AuxBatOn, you do a heck of a lot more than fly for your living. How many hours a week do you spend actually in the immediate vicinity of the aircraft?

I flew around 40 hours in October and average 20-25 hours a month. 40 hours is approx. 30 flights. Honestly, this is more than enough for me. My primary job is being a pilot. I flew 325 hours in 2011 and I am headed for a 250-270 hours year.

40 hours for me is approx 4 flights, 2 landings . My point was not about flying hours and how little or much a military pilot flies, but all the other things you guys do. I've flown under 400 hours in the last year, but that's it. I show up, I fly, I'm done. I'm interested to know how much of your work week is spent NOT in the immediate vicinity of your aircraft? What other duties fill you day?

[iflyforpie]

I've got 240 in the last 365 and I do a ton more than fly airplanes. My former employer quit the Forces because of the lack of flying after being posted in Europe.

[Bede]

Great post Col. I do agree with the basic premise of your post- success is largely a function of the year you were born.

I should mention one thing though. You are mostly correct, but not entirely. Even depressed economies are dynamic to some extent. Someone is always hiring, it's just that the demand for pilots is far less than the supply, driving down prices as pilots become price takers. If one company goes under flooding the market with pilots, another company has to pick up the left over business. After all, no company has absolutely no business. Remember 10 years ago when everyone was going under- JetsGo sprung up (better JetsGo than no one). When the market took care of them, WestJet started hiring.

The same thing applies to cars: had one of the big three gone under, many jobs would have been lost, but another manufacturer would have had to step up to fill the gap in supply and hired many of the laid off workers. This is how free markets become efficient- through people's misery. Enough moralizing.

Jobs may be scare at the bottom of the cycle, but working hard will keep your resume out of the trash bin.

[AuxBatOn]

40 hours for me is approx 4 flights, 2 landings . My point was not about flying hours and how little or much a military pilot flies, but all the other things you guys do. I've flown under 400 hours in the last year, but that's it. I show up, I fly, I'm done. I'm interested to know how much of your work week is spent NOT in the immediate vicinity of your aircraft? What other duties fill you day?

In a 40 hours month, almost 100% of my time will be dedicated to flying. Before each flight, there is a briefing for minimum 1.5 hours (no extended mission planning) and after landing, you are tied up (debriefing) for at least 2 hours.

Most of the time, the flights are also upgrade missions on guys, so I will be evaluating them on either being a wingman or a lead. That will be lead to some extra time debriefing the guy's briefing/flight/debriefing, and then write a report.

I don't think I see aviation the same way you do. I see the aircraft as a weapons platform (don't get me wrong, I love flying, but flying straight and level for 10 hours a flight is not for me). If I am not planning/briefing/flying/debriefing, I have secondary duties and responsibilities, however they are very much secondary. My primary duty is to be the most proficient fighter pilot I can be. That means in my non-flying time, I will hit the books and study weapons systems, tactics, etc, etc. Normally, we will spend more time at work than a "normal" person would. Simply because I like hanging out with the bros, taking a beer after work, talk tactics, etc...

That being said, the experience is probably very, very different from a Transport/Tac Hel/SAR pilot's point of view.

P.S.: Yes, there are staff tours, however in the end it's a lifestyle/career choice. Yes, your OFFICER career may be ruined if you avoid staff jobs, however, your flying career will be good. There are guys that, in 12 years, have not seen a desk. It is rare, but not impossible.

[Gravol]

I made more than 50 from day 1 and I make around 100K now. Been flying for the a living for 6 years.

By no means am I asking you to leave your financial records / pin # on this site. I am just curious is you can explain this further. I was under the impression these pay scale charts are were accurate

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/payscales- ... ersregular

[AuxBatOn]

I made more than 50 from day 1 and I make around 100K now. Been flying for the a living for 6 years.

By no means am I asking you to leave your financial records / pin # on this site. I am just curious is you can explain this further. I was under the impression these pay scale charts are were accurate

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/payscales- ... ersregular

2Lt ROTP makes 4401 per month from day one (excluding casual aircrew allowance). That's 52 000$/yr without the allowance during training.

Once you get your wings, most people will be promoted to Capt. I got promoted to Capt in 2008, so I am receiving Capt Pilot incentive 4, which is 8199$ a month plus 305$ a month for aircrew allowance. That's 8504$ a month or 102 000$ a year.

Depending on your location, you may also be entitled to PLD (Post Living Differential), which can be very significant.

[Colonel Sanders]

Yes, there are staff tours, however in the end it's a lifestyle/career choice. Yes, your OFFICER career may be ruined if you avoid staff jobs, however, your flying career will be good. There are guys that, in 12 years, have not seen a desk

You have pretty much described my father's RCAF career. He retired
after 13 years of continuous Sabre/104 flying with the exalted rank
of Flt Lt - what you would call an army captain.

If you make the choice of being a "flying captain" you will be tossed
out before you are 40, to start a second civilian career from scratch.

[wanderer_]

Its been 9 years and I still make below 50....

And I'm at my first year at AC.

Do you mean you took a pay cut when you joined AC or did you never even get to the 50k mark ?

the more important question is how long until you make 80k. 80 is the new 50. Especially out west where the cost of living is higher it's hard - if not impossible - to get ahead on 50 to 60k if you have any amount of debt to pay off.

That is very true, hard to do much on 50k these days if you are in debt, especially in the bigger cities.

That isn't the question you should be asking to be honest. Plenty of guys make 50K plus after a few years, but then not too long after find themselves back under the 40K mark after taking a "promotion" to a new job on supposedly better equipment. The question should be how many years before you ended up in a career job making 60K + a year where you weren't looking for your next job 6 months after you got hired. And the follow up to that..How many years in your career job before you had enough seniority to stop worrying about getting laid off on the first down turn.

True, perhaps that is the real question I should be asking. I'm just afraid of the answer. It'll probably take very long to achieve that kind of financial stability being a pilot.

[Masters Off]

It's interesting that you mention about the year you're born Col.
I have thought this, but when someone else brings it up, it sounds more solidifying.
In my first couple years, like everyone else I completed flight school, however at the magical 250 hour mark I couldn't get a job to save my life. I persevered. My hours per year were low, maybe a couple bad decisions (getting one rating, not another, etc) may have slowed me down, however I've now seen guys with a couple years less than me quickly transfered to Twin Otters, Bae 31s, King Air's, the like. Not to say I didn't fly something, but a VFR 206 is not a King Air. This went for guys who entered the industry at the same time as I did.

Now, those who've got a few years of King Air time, are my captains, I am still trying to catch back up, but it all takes time. Regardless of how hard I work, if I hold my spot in my job, I continually gain hours, at a predictable rate, get paid, pay off debt, and can predict when to move on, move up, etc. Now, years later, I'm just a number, much like many guys in the industry. It doesn't matter how hard I work, how well I can handle that ILS, because I'm number x in a company, upgrading when guys move, or waiting for x company to hire at x hours. At some point between 250 hours and now, things became standardized, and as long as I pass a P.P.C. (for some a P.C.C.), my medical, and keep plugging hours, nothing else matters. Sounds a little heartless, actually.

And money? Who knows. One company up north (that can't hold it's employees, due to it's remoteness) pays $22K to start (F/O), on the other side of the territories, for the exact same airplane, $46K(F/O), very similar job, hours, etc. I'm pretty sure that some companies are much the exception on both ends of the rule for no apparent reason. We all know this.

[Adam Oke]

I had my CPL signed off in 2007, and worked various time building jobs in Canada and New Zealand up until 2010. I started my first full flying season with around 800TT in 2011 and made around 25k, gross.

I busted the 50k mark, gross, this season working for two companies. I work less than 5 months out of the year and fly about ~300 hrs a year, give or take 50. My "schedule" for the past couple years looks kind of like "3 months on 5 months off, 2 months on, 2 months off, rinse, and repeat". All meals and accommodation are paid when I'm on contract. I have a turbine upgrade with one company for the 2013 season. Collective between the two, I am projecting in and around the 60-70k mark, gross, with maybe ~400 hrs a year, with the same schedule for 2013. Top end guys with one company I work for are 6 figure in those 3 months. I can expect a steady increase each season.

Most of my flying has been single seat, piston, taildraggers. I don't chase iron, I chase money.

[Liquid Charlie]

Here is a little food for thought -- I made $32,000 in 1972 which translates to aprox $178,000 in today's dollars and I worked with a guy who made $60,000 the same year which comes to the unbelievable amount of $330,000 today's buying power -- so where have the wages gone we must ask -- it seems I worked for 40 years to only to retire at the about same amount of money I made in 1972 -- mmmmm -- how fu_ck_up is that -- my first year flying a buck 80 in 1968-9 I made 6000 -- which is about 34 grand today --

[Shiny Side Up]

Wind shear alarm? Wind Shear Alarm! We don't need no stinking Wind Shear Alarm!