>>

Yep I understand the predicament. But i am not saying that I am better than you. what I am saying is that you are as good as me and should be getting compensated equally. Sorry, just not a huge fan of KR. Sorry that you have to face upcoming situation with AT. Hopefully they have positions for you guys if it comes to that.

Isn't it amazing that as soon as this post was placed that
Gilles hasn't said a word. I guess he's waiting to see how this will affect the
pilots of Transat, oops, I mean all Canadian pilots.

AsheetMaDraws wrote:Isn't it amazing that as soon as this post was placed that
Gilles hasn't said a word. I guess he's waiting to see how this will affect the
pilots of Transat, oops, I mean all Canadian pilots.

I really don't see the pertinence or the relevance of this post in this thread ?!

Perhaps this guy was eagerly waiting an opportunity to shit on Gilles and thought it would make sense here.

Well what happened at the meeting today?

Was it a one day meeting, or over two days? Or maybe one in cyul and one in cyyz?

Newz should be out fairly soon....

Hence why, as the rumour went, Jazz said no to putting in a bid. There's no money to be made here unless your costs are ultra low.

Jazz will never again find a contract that provides the profits that its current CPA with AC provides. And that CPA will terminate, at the very latest, in 2020(there will probably be a reduction in block hours in 2015 as AC transfers as much flying to SR as possible). Jazz better get used to, and good at, flying for less if it has any hope of a long term future. It might be wise to get as many types on its OC as possible for when the CPA cash cow ends. Jazz management keeps telling us that they want to concentrate on the CPA and keep AC happy, but what's the point when AC clearly has eyes for SR, or whichever bargain basement outfit will provide cheap lift?

Some of the savings will come from unspecified concessions by employees, who last year accepted a two-year wage freeze. But this time, the company isn't seeking to touch salaries, Cabana said.

He said pilots were prepared, for example, to stay in hotels near airports instead of downtown, which would allow the airline to realize considerable savings.

"unspecified concessions"................

hithere wrote:Jazz will never again find a contract that provides the profits that its current CPA with AC provides. And that CPA will terminate, at the very latest, in 2020(there will probably be a reduction in block hours in 2015 as AC transfers as much flying to SR as possible). Jazz better get used to, and good at, flying for less if it has any hope of a long term future. It might be wise to get as many types on its OC as possible for when the CPA cash cow ends. Jazz management keeps telling us that they want to concentrate on the CPA and keep AC happy, but what's the point when AC clearly has eyes for SR, or whichever bargain basement outfit will provide cheap lift?

Oh trust me, not to 7500 this thread but I agree! However with our cost structure could Jazz do it cheap enough for Transat and cheaper than Canjet?

what's the news from the meetings?

paddy wrote:http://www.timescolonist.com/business/a ... ns-1.48988

Making money with 737's is relatively easy for about 200 days a year in Canada.

The trick is not giving it all away the other 165 days a year. Tuesdays in November are never fun....and NG's need to fly to make money so you can't simply park the fleet on slow days like Allegiant does.

Trying to compete with a sched / sched charter product in 2014 during those nasty 165 days a year without any type of meaningful feed / flow is a recipe for fiscal disaster, especially if your costs are not where they need to be.

It might have been feasible 10-12 years ago, but not now with WJ at 100+ airframes + Encore. There is room for growth, but it'd very very difficult for anyone to get enough traction on a year - round basis.

If I had to guess, Transat's model will be an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" one with airframes disappearing back to Europe in May and reappearing in November.

It'll be interesting to see how they handle the flight crew issue.

Are these guys staying at the same hotels that Bev Oda says at? Because to save 20 million by staying closer to the airport has me in stitches!

When are they really going to ask for wage consessions? You can't pay $180k a year to fly an NG in this market. AT has some very serious legacy costs looking at the big picture.

fivemoreminutes wrote:Are these guys staying at the same hotels that Bev Oda says at? Because to save 20 million by staying closer to the airport has me in stitches!

When are they really going to ask for wage consessions? You can't pay $180k a year to fly an NG in this market. AT has some very serious legacy costs looking at the big picture.

You are grossly misinformed.

Jean-Luc Monette wrote:You are grossly misinformed.

please inform us then.

Their contract has a narrow body pay scale, I don't know what it is, but certain it's not 180gs

scopiton wrote:

Jean-Luc Monette wrote:You are grossly misinformed.

please inform us then.

First off, the newspaper articles were very misleading as the cost cutting measures don't apply ONLY to Air Transat but to the whole Group Transat. To even imply that we (crews) can save AT 20 millions from relocating from the downtown areas to the airport hotels is ludicrous.

Secondly, there is already a salary scale in place in our collective agreement re the narrow-body fleet and I can assure you that the 180k that fivemoreminutes is talking about is, well, simply non existant, even for a 11 years+ Capt.

Other than that, everything at this stage is pure speculation since it is our respective unions that will come to us with the propositions from the company. So I guess you will have to wait until everything has been voted for and ratified, as I am sure you know that a public forum is not the place to discuss such matters until they are settled. Until then it's just hearsay.

fair enough
thanks

mbav8r wrote:Their contract has a narrow body pay scale, I don't know what it is, but certain it's not 180gs

Air Transat
Cdn $'s (Hourly Rates) (Annual / 1020 hours)

Airline Rank Effective Date Equipment Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 Year 6 Year 7 Year 8 Year 9 Year 10
TSC CA 5/1/05-4/30/06 All $101.79 $108.08 $114.37 $120.66 $126.95 $133.24 $139.53 $145.81 $152.10 $156.67
TSC CA 5/1/06-4/30/07 All $104.08 $110.51 $116.94 $123.37 $129.81 $136.24 $142.67 $149.09 $155.52 $160.20
TSC CA 5/1/07-4/30/08 All $106.42 $113.00 $119.57 $126.15 $132.73 $139.30 $145.88 $152.45 $159.02 $163.80
TSC CA 5/1/08-4/30/09 All $108.82 $115.54 $122.26 $128.99 $135.71 $142.44 $149.16 $155.88 $162.60 $167.48
TSC CA 5/1/09-4/30/10 All $111.26 $118.14 $125.02 $131.89 $138.77 $145.64 $152.52 $159.38 $166.26 $171.25
TSC CA 5/1/10-4/30/11 All $113.77 $120.80 $127.83 $134.86 $141.89 $148.92 $155.95 $162.97 $170.00 $175.11
TSC CA 5/1/11-4/30/12 All $118.42 $125.74 $133.06 $140.37 $147.69 $155.01 $162.33 $169.63 $176.95 $182.27
TSC CA 5/1/12-4/30/13 All $118.42 $125.74 $133.06 $140.37 $147.69 $155.01 $162.33 $169.63 $176.95 $182.27
TSC CA 5/1/13-4/30/14 All $118.42 $125.74 $133.06 $140.37 $147.69 $155.01 $162.33 $169.63 $176.95 $182.27
TSC CA 5/1/14-4/30/15 All $118.42 $125.74 $133.06 $140.37 $147.69 $155.01 $162.33 $169.63 $176.95 $182.27
TSC CA 04/30/15 All $128.50 $136.44 $144.38 $152.32 $160.26 $168.20 $176.14 $184.07 $192.01 $197.78
TSC FO 5/1/05-4/30/06 All $61.08 $66.47 $71.48 $77.22 $81.25 $86.60 $90.69 $96.24 $100.39
TSC FO 5/1/06-4/30/07 All $62.45 $67.97 $73.09 $78.96 $83.08 $88.55 $92.73 $98.41 $102.65
TSC FO 5/1/07-4/30/08 All $63.86 $69.49 $74.73 $80.73 $84.95 $90.54 $94.82 $100.62 $104.96
TSC FO 5/1/08-4/30/09 All $65.30 $71.06 $76.41 $82.55 $86.86 $92.58 $96.95 $102.88 $107.32
TSC FO 5/1/09-4/30/10 All $66.77 $72.66 $78.13 $84.41 $88.81 $94.66 $99.13 $105.20 $109.73
TSC FO 5/1/10-4/30/11 All $68.27 $74.29 $79.89 $86.31 $90.81 $96.79 $101.36 $107.56 $112.20
TSC FO 5/1/11-4/30/12 All $71.06 $77.33 $83.16 $89.84 $94.53 $100.75 $105.51 $111.96 $116.79
TSC FO 5/1/12-4/30/13 All $71.06 $77.33 $83.16 $89.84 $94.53 $100.75 $105.51 $111.96 $116.79
TSC FO 5/1/13-4/30/14 All $71.06 $77.33 $83.16 $89.84 $94.53 $100.75 $105.51 $111.96 $116.79
TSC FO 5/1/14-4/30/15 All $71.06 $77.33 $83.16 $89.84 $94.53 $100.75 $105.51 $111.96 $116.79
TSC FO 04/30/15 All $77.11 $83.91 $90.24 $97.49 $102.57 $109.32 $114.49 $121.49 $126.73

The hourly rates above DO NOT include an incentive compensation formula based on the adjusted net income. See table below.

Updates reflect LOA 45. CBA Modifications and wage freeze. Signed 5/17/2012

Incentive Compensation Formula: Based on Adjusted Net Income. Payable on February 15, 2013, 2014, 2015 and December 15, 2015.
Threshold Target Max
Transat A.T. inc. Adjusted Net Income, as 5 of Revnue 0.75% 1.50% 2.75%
% of Salary Paid as Bonus
Year 1 - end 2012 5/1/12 -10/31/2012 1.5% 3.0% 6.0%
Year 2 - end 2013 11/1/2012 - 10/31/2013 3.0% 6.0% 12.0%
Year 3 - end 2014 11/1/2013 - 10/31/2014 4.5% 9.0% 18.0%
Year 4 - end 2015 11/1/2014 - 4/30/2015 5.0% 10.0% 20.0%

Orginally updated 5/24/2011 for 2010 Contract
Annual Salary scales are included in CBA but not shown here.

TNCM wrote:

Legacy wrote:.
I hear Emirates still pays a decent wage, I'm sure your family will be thrilled by life in Dubai.

Private schools offering far far better education than Canada. Palm trees around the swimmin pool. Downhill skiing (indoors). Sunshine year round. Zero tolerance for crime (they throw em away). Affordable house maids. Emirates salary. Cheap tickets to interesting places. No taxes. More disposable income.

I see your point.

bmc wrote:

TNCM wrote:

Legacy wrote:.
I hear Emirates still pays a decent wage, I'm sure your family will be thrilled by life in Dubai.

Private schools offering far far better education than Canada. Palm trees around the swimmin pool. Downhill skiing (indoors). Sunshine year round. Zero tolerance for crime (they throw em away). Affordable house maids. Emirates salary. Cheap tickets to interesting places. No taxes. More disposable income.

I see your point.

Taking the kids away from their grandparents, aunts, uncles and everyone else. Friends all left behind, spouse leaving their career and the list goes on and on. Sounds like a nightmare to me but who ever wants to all the best. Just not for me and a lot of other people I know.

teacher wrote:

Taking the kids away from their grandparents, aunts, uncles and everyone else. Friends all left behind, spouse leaving their career and the list goes on and on. Sounds like a nightmare to me but who ever wants to all the best. Just not for me and a lot of other people I know.

Leaving family behind was the biggest price we paid. We left for a two year adventure in the gulf, not Dubai. We left the gulf the gulf after three years for Europe and we've been here for twelve years. Salary doubled when I left Canada. My wife did contract work in the gulf and strted her own consultancy in Europe and has not been without work for more than three weeks. Our kids went to private internationl schools provided by employers, getting an education of hugher quality than if we stayed in Canada. The life experience has been tremendous. We have never regretted it for a minute. The quality of life, quality of health care, disponsible income. It's been a very positive experience for us. We could have stayed in Canada but we took the risk and its paid off. We still make a couple of trips bck home a year. We can afford transatlantic airfares, which I never could have had we stayed.

I do miss family, but I also missed them when I lived and worked in different parts of Canada. It isn't for everybody. Nor is living in arctic. Which I did as well. Our kids are comfortable living anywhere. We have one in YYJ and one in Paris. Both proud Canadians that have traveled extensively. And, because of their friends in the interntional school, they have friends all over the world and the high school peer pressure was to excel at university, achieving a masters degree as a bare minimum.

We are pretty sure we will retire here. But, if grndchildren appear, I'd be more than happy to continue the expat life. It's not bad.

It all gets down to what you're willing to compromise. The grass cn be greener on the otherside. There are a few of us expats on avcanada. We all know who we are. And I feel confident in saying on their behalf, that moving abroad was a great thing to hve done.

I'm sure it was a great move for you and for some others, still a nightmare scenario for me. Glad to hear things working out for you. I won't give up our kids seeing their grandparents every few weeks, weekends at the family cottage with the cousins and holidays with family. Like I said, great for some, life sentence for others.

Well said teacher!! Family first.. I miss my Dad and I'm only and hour away!