LOW TIME PILOT JOB IN GTA CANADA

[Colonel Sanders]

I flew this:

http://i.imgur.com/BLkTi.jpg

It was in Brantford, I think, and needed to go to Belize.
Nobody around, no checkout, nothing. Checked the
journey log for a current annual, climbed in, fired up
the Lyc GO-480's and off to Buffalo to clear customs.

[iflyforpie]

I only got to ground run one.... PCD shortly before its accident. Probably the coolest airplane I've ever worked on.



And you are right STL... but I was just trying to think from the point of view of a metrosexual pilot in the GTA... or their dog....

[x15]

I use the following analogy when describing the choices new comers have when trying to get that first job.

When you get your commercial you also get a plate with 5 pounds of S#!t on it as well; albeit invisible. You then are afforded your first decision (hopefully one of many that take you to that ultimate goal you have in mind) and that decision is your choice of spoon size. Small, medium or large.

So the deal is you only get one scoop per day and your career really won't start progressing in the direction you want until you have eaten your fair share of S#!t. There are exceptions.

1. The small spoon. This is instructing or working dispatch in Toronto or any other major centre. You take your one small scoop of the goodstuff and make that face everyone makes when they taste something awful; but it's over as quickly as it started because its a small scoop. I liken working in a big centre to this because you are building time and living close to friends and family etc... Those are the pros. The cons to this spoon size is that it takes years to eat it all and by the end you are tired of eating it and just want out. Once you are done eating you will get a job at a PC12 operation or something of that sort and sit right seat for a few more years making a little more than you did as a starving instructor. Once you make skipper you are probably 4-5 years in and you somehow still think you can taste the goo....Then its onto Air Georgian or Porter where you get to fly an airplane with two engines and have passes. All without ever having left the big city (I use the Toronto version; please feel free to insert the applicable operators from your province) Total time required 7 years or so until Big Red will look at you.

2. The big spoon (we'll come back to the medium spoon) This is what everyone else has already mentioned. Go where no one else wants to go. Go work on the ramp in Thompson loading pepsi, kfc, McDonalds, Insulin and the rest into a metro at -35 twelve hours at a time for 6-10 months. This spoon is large because places like Thompson are no picnic (at least at first). You're not building time. You will think you are wasting your time and want to give up at some point, while your friends flying the 172 back in Toronto laugh in your general direction. You will freeze your delicate bits off. You're far from your old friends and family, the town has the basics of life but nothing like a big city, so it is tough for the average person to go up there and leave everything behind. Thus the big spoon; and massive mouthfuls of the goo everyday. Then in as little as 6 months (see years for instructor/dispatch route) you get notified that you are going to move onto the Metro as an FO. The good news is that the hardest work is still ahead of you. You start making a decent amount of money (less that anyone would like but quite a bit considering) You'll fly high, low, during the day, at night and in in some terrible weather but you get the job done and done safely. Do that a year or so and then move to the left seat. THEN....you get to learn what you really don't know..because now you are in a hostile environment that accepts few excuses and you have a green FO beside you; who is looking at you for all the answers. You develop your leadership skills, your communication skills, your flying skills and when you have 2000 hours you can leave and goto Cathay or Air Canada or whatever division of aviation you want because people will look at your resume and be able to surmise all the extra skills you gained other than your ability to move a machine around with precision. You will see a totally different version of Canada that will make you appreciate everything you had and will have moving forward. Total time required 4 years until Big Red will look at you.

The medium spoon is a combo platter of both. Its instructing til you get 500 hours then moving to a place like Thompson and completing the big spoon challenge.

I know a guy started flying very late in life (30) he instructed for 6 months got 500 hours and moved up north. Flew a King Air 200 for 10 months. Moved onto a Navajo and did a year single pilot ifr. He then moved back to the king air as capt and shortly thereafter due to a company closure moved back home and got the job he always wanted flying a large biz jet all over the world. He did it all in 24 months from the time he got his CPL signed off. However he did cheat a little. He decided it would be a good idea to eat twice his daily ration as often as he could by working longer and more often that other pilots at the same company. The result is he came and went from the north in a very short time.

Be positive. Look at the adversity of the north as a gift; because it is. You will go up with a license to learn and learn a lot!

The choice is yours. The first decision is the hardest. But this is what you signed up for. We all have to eat it in some form or fashion. So pick up a spoon and dig in.

[esp803]

I should add that not everybody is so quick even with hard work, there's a lot of who you know, luck, and risk taking (moving without a job, not flying in severe icing) to get ahead quickly. From what I've observed after about 5 years everybody who I got my license with is in roughly the same boat regardless of the path chosen. Some of us are flying bigger machines, some are making more money, some are working seasonally but I think all of us enjoy our current positions. I always advocate chasing the lifestyle you want as opposed to chasing tin, but if a year or two out of the city isn't then end of the world then I'd highly recommend it.

E

[Koalemos]

Great summary by x15. Having gone the medium spoon route, I personally found flying in Northern Ontario to be the best learning experience (compared to instructing), and the most memorable. You'll scare the s&&t out of yourself at least once, but if you have a good employer and don't do anything stupid you'll come out in one piece with a good pool of experience to draw on.

[Magnetron]

Great analogy by x15.

I just feel like adding a bit to it,

And sometimes someone somewhere decides to take the goo off of the one persons plate who barely touched it and dump in on yours. Looks like I'm gonna need a bigger spoon...anyone?

C'est la vie no?

[tuskegee0147]

I'm still trying to get into regional airlines, as a dispatch/rampie here in Toronto Canada as long as a right seat is guaranteed after a period of 1 year but no luck yet. All i hear is you are determined but the season is slow .( save me that crap and lemme work,the hiring season for pilots in Canada is from March-October because of the weather)At the end of the day i somehow feel that it is a person that understands where i am coming from and where i am going to(one who is willing to take a chance on me to better and improve my skills) that will give me a break. Any help will be much appreciated as Quitting is not an option as i am following aviation wherever it takes me
Take the bull by the horn and be the captain of your life

[Changes in Latitudes]

Quitting is not an option as i am following aviation wherever it takes me

So follow it North and give up this GTA business. You'll be so much better off.

[esp803]

as long as a right seat is guaranteed after a period of 1 year but no luck yet

Nothing in life is a guarantee, especially in aviation. If you want a job in that area I suggest you change your attitude.

save me that crap and lemme work,the hiring season for pilots in Canada is from March-October because of the weather

Again, change of attitude is going to help you... hiring season is when a company needs pilots, the exception to this is if you are looking for a float job. In the case of floats hiring season is when a company is in need of pilots and the lakes are not frozen. If I owned a company I would not hire someone if I didn't need to... simple economics. These airlines exist for one reason, and unfortunately it's not to help young pilots get a break.

If quitting is not an option and no one if the GTA is hiring, go else where or be patient. This sense of entitlement is not going to help you find someone to help give you a break. It has been suggested to no end on this thread to head north and I'll stand by that (again). If you are determined something will pop up, but like EVERYBODY else has stated you really are looking in the wrong area. A lot of the people who commented on this have quite a wealth of experience and I would suggest you take their advice.

E

[Koalemos]

I'm still trying to get into regional airlines, as a dispatch/rampie here in Toronto Canada as long as a right seat is guaranteed after a period of 1 year but no luck yet.

Unfortunately you will not find a Regional based in Toronto that will give you this (especially with the experience you posted in the original post). I admire your persistence and it's your choice obviously, but disregarding all the advice and experience that has been given will only lead to frustration for you.

The typical career paths have been well highlighted in previous posts. Trying to break into the Instructor scene in Southern Ontario or go elsewhere (Prairies, Northern Ontario, the far North, etc...) to work 702/703 and move up through ramp/FO/Captain. Pros/Cons to both paths.

Best of Luck whatever you decide.

[tuskegee0147]

GO NORTH as in NWO or NWT?
where do i start? No clue
who do i know there? Noone
Patience again is golden
As i have just moved here
If i get an opportunity up North il take it
But for now il just have to BE PATIENT
work, gather enough $$$$$
till i can be able to brace the NWT

[GUMPS]

GO NORTH as in NWO or NWT?
where do i start? No clue
who do i know there? Noone
Patience again is golden
As i have just moved here
If i get an opportunity up North il take it
But for now il just have to BE PATIENT
work, gather enough $$$$$
till i can be able to brace the NWT

Poetry.

[Changes in Latitudes]

While you sit and be patient in Toronto, 10 people will have pounded on doors up north and gotten jobs.

Start here and go through every company that will look at lower time guys:


http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/

[Colonel Sanders]

I know I was dropped on my head as a small child,
but I still can't figure out what the attraction of
Toronto is. I have spent far too many years of
my life in that particular cesspool. Never again.

[jpilot77]

Unless your instructing Toronto is not generally for low time guys (same goes for YUL, YVR, YYC etc...). Don't know why you moved to Toronto but if it was to get a flying job you would have done better in Winnipeg, but it's farther north than Muskoka so...

[shimmydampner]

GO NORTH as in NWO or NWT?
where do i start? No clue
who do i know there? Noone
Patience again is golden

l realize that it is a daunting task to go about finding that first job, but you gotta nut up or shut up. You have been given some solid advice here and you obviously know how to use the googles, so quit whining and get to it. There is a wealth of information on this site and others. No one is going to hold your hand. After all, some of us managed to pull it off before the days of Av Canada back when we had to mail out old fashioned paper resumes and use telephones with cords to make phone calls. We DID have the advantage of cheap gas for the road trip though.
Also, patience is NOT golden when it comes to finding your first job: tenacity and a good attitude are. You need to work on both, it seems.

[tuskegee0147]

This will be my last reply on this topic as i wear the shoe and know where it pinches
Not every one was born here or had things handed down to them
with that said i have a plan which will help me build the hours i desire
and not seek the hours another man or company can build for me
With a regular job 2hours of flying a week will be 104 hours in a year
Also i will work on my F.I rating during this period
As a F.I 520 hours a year for 10 years will be 5304 hours in 10 years
When i say patience is golden, it takes one that has faith in God to understand this
I believe to be an instructor patience is a virtue but sadly only few possess it
During this process i will meet people and knock on doors
Hopefully at 2500 hours in 5 years, i am sure i will get a job here or overseas.
Thank you all on your advice and sarcasms as it is motivation to succeed
its not a race to see who gets the job faster but rather who gets the job done well
At the end of the day i can look anyone in the face and say i got here

[CanadianEh]

This will be my last reply on this topic as i wear the shoe and know where it pinches
Not every one was born here or had things handed down to them
with that said i have a plan which will help me build the hours i desire
and not seek the hours another man or company can build for me
With a regular job 2hours of flying a week will be 104 hours in a year
Also i will work on my F.I rating during this period
As a F.I 520 hours a year for 10 years will be 5304 hours in 10 years
When i say patience is golden, it takes one that has faith in God to understand this
I believe to be an instructor patience is a virtue but sadly only few possess it
During this process i will meet people and knock on doors
Hopefully at 2500 hours in 5 years, i am sure i will get a job here or overseas.
Thank you all on your advice and sarcasms as it is motivation to succeed
its not a race to see who gets the job faster but rather who gets the job done well
At the end of the day i can look anyone in the face and say i got here

Sounds good, good luck to you.

[MorePower!]

This will be my last reply on this topic as i wear the shoe and know where it pinches
Not every one was born here or had things handed down to them
with that said i have a plan which will help me build the hours i desire
and not seek the hours another man or company can build for me
With a regular job 2hours of flying a week will be 104 hours in a year
Also i will work on my F.I rating during this period
As a F.I 520 hours a year for 10 years will be 5304 hours in 10 years
When i say patience is golden, it takes one that has faith in God to understand this
I believe to be an instructor patience is a virtue but sadly only few possess it
During this process i will meet people and knock on doors
Hopefully at 2500 hours in 5 years, i am sure i will get a job here or overseas.
Thank you all on your advice and sarcasms as it is motivation to succeed
its not a race to see who gets the job faster but rather who gets the job done well
At the end of the day i can look anyone in the face and say i got here

All up to you of course! But like most said.. Going North is a great option, and it is a lot of fun. Unless you do want to stay in Toronto and GRIND it out to that possible position eventually.

I got my first job driving north scoping out companies and then calling them every other week for a month or two.. Eventually I got a call back and a seat on a 185 flying floats,getting 500 hours my first summer.Best time of my life. And after a short while gave me the experience to move where I wanted to go. Flying a beav on the coast.

To each their own.. But I lived in Toronto and really you couldn't pay me to go back.

Good luck sir!