ag-training recurrency

[pdw]

No "waste". Good "time" management is the right thing to do ... drive on !

When the 'first incident' of the season happened one year (somewhere in SK I think) where a loaded 'crop duster' didn't clear trees at the end of the strip on the first day, ... everybody is depressed & feeling down, ... my buddy suggests he'll take the whole group of pilots golfing. Relunctantly, with some persuasion, they all go along ... which got their minds off all that negative stuff (including the poor weather-day, ie too windy on that day). Nobody hurt just $$$ lost,... and that turned out to be a real morale booster; after that the whole season proceeded along just fine.

[swixtt]

this site has always been a waste of time. OP stick to your original network, looks like it will serve you well.

[Cat Driver]

this site has always been a waste of time. OP stick to your original network, looks like it will serve you well.

His original questions were vague and it was difficult to figure out what exactly he wanted to do.

Several of the people who responded were experienced Ag pilots, but somehow it all went sideways.

So I guess you are correct this site is a waste of time sometimes.

[photofly]

this site has always been a waste of time. OP stick to your original network, looks like it will serve you well.

His original questions were vague and it was difficult to figure out what exactly he wanted to do.

Bollocks.


It would have been quite easy for the gods of aviation on here to give a helpful answer instead of ripping the op a new anus. All you have to do is want to be helpful. But that's not why a lot of people post here, apparently. The more experience you have in the pilot's seat, the bigger twat on Avcanada you tend to be, it seems. With a few honourable exceptions.

[Cat Driver]

Really?

Then you should set an example and and advise these posters on how best to go about teaching these skills.

My question was legitimate based on his first post.

This aviation industry is truly hard to understand because it seems to be normal to offer training for areas people have no experience in.

By the way photofly I think I mentioned before I plan on ignoring you and your ideas.....

.......

[photofly]

By the way photofly I think I mentioned before I plan on ignoring you and your ideas.....
.......

Good luck. You don't possess even one shred of the self-discipline you'd need to follow through on that.

[Colonel Sanders]

The more experience you have in the pilot's seat, the bigger twat on Avcanada you tend to be, it seems.

Thank you, thank you very much! You are all too kind.

Grumpy Old Guys (tm) rarely suffer fools gladly. I remember
when I started work at cisco around 15 years ago, I was
warned that there were a bunch of Grumpy Old Guys (tm)
whom had been around for years - and thus were each worth
at least $100M in vested and unvested stock options - and if
you screwed up and broke the IOS build with a moronic commit,
well, they were going to tear you a new one, because they
didn't suffer fools gladly.

It was a bizarre situation. The Grumpy Old Programmers
would simply tell any manager to f__k off. First of all, they
needed the Grumpy Old Programmers for their software
knowledge, and second of all, the Grumpy Old Programmers
had more money than Jesus, whom had been saving for at
least a couple thousand years.

As you might imagine, this lead to some tearful hurt feelings
amongst the newbies who screwed up. Because I am not
a nice person, I found it a hilarious and fascinating place to
work. Sort of like Barnum & Bailieys with buckets of cash.

What the Grumpy Old Programmers would do, would blow
your mind. One day, one of the Routing Queens (Tony Li)
had a temper tantrum and quit. He was the inventor of BGP.
His resignation letter was a 2x4 that he nailed across the
VP's door (Stu Philips, I think it was ) with "I QUIT" written
across is. Tony walked out on hundreds of millions of dollars
in unvested stock options.

Tony joined Juniper, and had another temper tantrum there,
and AGAIN walked out on hundreds of millions of dollars of
stock options, right before the IPO if memory serves.

Anyways. My long-winded point is that there are eccentric
highly talented characters everywhere. Lords knows, especially
in aviation. Enjoy the floor show.

[photofly]

As you might imagine, this lead to some tearful hurt feelings
amongst the newbies who screwed up.

1. The poster here asked for help. When people take the time to ask for help, they generally deserve to get it. If people don't ask for and receive help before proceeding on a course of action then they're more likely to screw up. The more the AvCanada Twats rip new assholes into people, they harder they make it for anyone else to ask for help and the more likely it becomes that people screw up because they didn't ask.

2. If the AvCanada Twats want to shout at the op after he's rolled their own aircraft up into a ball (or fucked their girlfriends or wives or dogs or done some other heinous act to the personal detriment of one individual Twat or another) then so be it. This is not such a situation.

3. AvCanada needs new posters to stick around and become old posters, and less frequent posters to post more. That's not going to happen if the AvCanada Twats keep using their new-asshole-punching two-tonne hydraulic press on the large intestine of everyone who asks something of which the Twats disapprove.

[Colonel Sanders]

I have an over-active imagination. I have a
vision of an evil crew scheduler, trying to decide
whether to pair you with . or Tony Li on a
very long, overseas flight in a small, cramped
cockpit.

Then he gets on the phone and quietly cancels one
of your rooms at the fully-booked hotel for the
layover, so you have to share.

Hm. . or Tony.

[TG]

You are just getting sidetracked and proving photofly's valid points (might be your objective though)
Personally I find nothing hilarious or fascinating at bullies making life of others miserable. This no matter how many billions they have in their bank accounts.

So how about giving some genuine advice about the original topic instead ? I am sure you can do that.

[Cat Driver]

This was the information posted that started this discussion.

I should mention that i am a flight instructor and not an ag-pilot and my goal is to set up a mini ground and air program to get the ag-pilots ready for another safe season. Do you guys have any suggestions as to the air and ground exercises i should include in a one day course?

Thanks in advance,
Lance

Here is my question:

If I understand your question you are saying you have no ag-flying experience and want to set up a ag flying safety course?

How does my asking a legitimate question make me a bully TG?

[TG]

No not at all Cat, my apologize if it sounded like. That wasn't my intention.
Your initial question was unfortunately taken out of contest by some and snowballed in the wrong direction.

So not you but them:

If that is true, that is genuinely scary

This is a troll....right?

You are going to "help" experienced ag pilots get recurrent.??? ..here is a program suggestion.
Keep them out drinking until 0200 and then get them up at 0400 to fly. Winters make them lazy, and you dont want them going into Withdrawl this early in the season.

I have read some ego enhanced posts in the past, but yours is pretty much right there with the best of them...I.would really like to hear what you think you can offer to an experienced agpilot, for recurrency better than another experienced agpilot.

This has to be a troll

The poor OP must feel like Ricky Bobby riding the bus:

LMAO ! that's exactly how the Op is feeling right now, wishing he hadn't opened his mouth

etc...

Those are mean p!ss poor comments aimed at putting down lanceair and boosting the "Me better than you" ego type of things.
You guys don't even try the slightness to understand his motive and see the good initiative of it. Zero zilch nada!
That is sooooo bad that you should all deserve pronto a good CRM course!

Like the saying, there is no stupid questions in aviation (only stupid answers)
See where some of you stand with that now.

[trey kule]

Well TG, i see you demonstrate, by example, positive postings, for anyone who dares to disagree with you.

To the OP. i really did believe this was a troll, but apparently it is not, so I will treat it seriously. If I do not give you the answer you want to hear, I hope you will understand that it is because I dont think with your posted experience you really do have a lot to offer these guys.

This, as I understand it, is not about teaching anyone to fly the basics. It is, if I read the Op and thread title correctly, recurrency training for experienced ag pilots.
While ground school discussing any new CAR developments, chemicals, etc, might have merit, i have real trouble with flight training. Things may have changed since I did this type of work, but if they have not changed to much, at the altitudes ag pilots work at, teaching ( or correctly reviewing) spins , for example is a complete and utter waste of time. No matter how good you are, if you enter an unintentional spin from their typical working height, it is just to low to recover. In terms of flight training ag pilots need to get out and practice, and get the cobwebs cleared outvand the precision back over a nice airfield.

And, to be clear, as some posters mentioned about flight safety and their initial training, we are not talking about initial training here or initial type training. What I see here is a company that may be trying to save some training costs by using a relatively cheaper aircraft, or possibly an eager instructor who wants some hours. I fail to see any other reason not to use an experienced Ag pilot to do the recurrency training. And again, this is recurrency, not initial or type training. This seems to be about an instructor who is trying to find a reason d'etre.

So sorry to hurt your feelings, but you can take solace in the fact many others who considered comments like mine condescending and dismissive were quick to come to your aid and post condescending and dismissive comments about us. It seems experience and common sense is only deemed valuable if it furthers your personal aims.

Best of luck to you in your "mini" recurrency course. I would love to hear the pilots who take it giving their comments afterwards. Maybe we can all learn something.

[TG]

So sorry to hurt your feelings,
--------------
Best of luck to you in your "mini" recurrency course. I would love to hear the pilots who take it giving their comments afterwards. Maybe we can all learn something.

Me too, three and four!

Plus many thanks to prove me wrong trey kule!
For not being this condescending b@st@rd I initially thought you were

[photofly]

It seems experience and common sense is only deemed valuable if it furthers your personal aims.

You used your "experience and common sense" as cudgels to shit on someone who asked for help. The sympathy card doesn't suit you.

Being a Nice Person doesn't cost much and it's only a little extra effort. Try it.

[Cat Driver]

Trey K has explained it in its most reasonable context.

I fail to see any other reason not to use an experienced Ag pilot to do the recurrency training.

I was with The Flying Fireman for twelve years and we had nine tankers and nine bird dogs.

Every spring there was a company recurrent training program and only the most experienced pilots were training pilots.....for a good reason.

Ag flying requires more accurate flying than fire bombing does and any training pilot should be from the same category....highly experienced in the flying to be done.

Why is it so difficult for some of you to accept this?