WestJet earns $44.7 million in second quarter

[CpnCrunch]

Anyway, $32k is a perfectly livable wage unless you want to buy a shiny new pickup truck every year and own a huge carbuncle of a house in Calgary.

Sorry, I've been on holidays. Where did this $32k salary come from?

From the thread about Encore's pay and work conditions. It's (apparently) the guaranteed minimum salary for a FO.

[anonymity]

CpnCrunch wrote;
Anyway, $32k is a perfectly livable wage unless you want to buy a shiny new pickup truck every year and own a huge carbuncle of a house in Calgary.

Unless you've been in a coma for the last 10 years, 32k is not a perfectly livable wage, in fact if you have a wife and 1 child you qualify for food stamps!
With some quick guesstimates, I figure if an FO contributes 10% ESPP, they would take home approximately 1800.00 per month. Nope, won't be buying a new truck anytime soon. That's based on 38.00/hr at 75 hrs. 34,200.00 gross

Captains won't fair much better, taking home approximately 2800.00 per month, these numbers don't take in account for how much they are paying for the benefits!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75f0002m/2 ... 02-eng.htm
Low income cut-offs (1992 base) before tax

2012-500,000 inhabitants or more:
1 Person 23,647
2 Persons 29,440
3 Persons 36,193
4 persons 43,942

[whiteguy]

CpnCrunch wrote;
Anyway, $32k is a perfectly livable wage unless you want to buy a shiny new pickup truck every year and own a huge carbuncle of a house in Calgary.

Unless you've been in a coma for the last 10 years, 32k is not a perfectly livable wage, in fact if you have a wife and 1 child you qualify for food stamps!
With some quick guesstimates, I figure if an FO contributes 10% ESPP, they would take home approximately 1800.00 per month. Nope, won't be buying a new truck anytime soon. That's based on 38.00/hr at 75 hrs. 34,200.00 gross

Captains won't fair much better, taking home approximately 2800.00 per month, these numbers don't take in account for how much they are paying for the benefits!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75f0002m/2 ... 02-eng.htm
Low income cut-offs (1992 base) before tax

2012-500,000 inhabitants or more:
1 Person 23,647
2 Persons 29,440
3 Persons 36,193
4 persons 43,942

I think realistically you'll be looking at 85-90 hrs a month. That'll put you in the $39k to $41k range. Pretty comparable to other Dash operators in YYC.

[flyer 1492]

CpnCrunch wrote;
Anyway, $32k is a perfectly livable wage unless you want to buy a shiny new pickup truck every year and own a huge carbuncle of a house in Calgary.

Unless you've been in a coma for the last 10 years, 32k is not a perfectly livable wage, in fact if you have a wife and 1 child you qualify for food stamps!
With some quick guesstimates, I figure if an FO contributes 10% ESPP, they would take home approximately 1800.00 per month. Nope, won't be buying a new truck anytime soon. That's based on 38.00/hr at 75 hrs. 34,200.00 gross

Captains won't fair much better, taking home approximately 2800.00 per month, these numbers don't take in account for how much they are paying for the benefits!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75f0002m/2 ... 02-eng.htm
Low income cut-offs (1992 base) before tax

2012-500,000 inhabitants or more:
1 Person 23,647
2 Persons 29,440
3 Persons 36,193
4 persons 43,942

I think realistically you'll be looking at 85-90 hrs a month. That'll put you in the $39k to $41k range. Pretty comparable to other Dash operators in YYC.

No pilots at Encore will see the higher wages until at least mid 2014. The reason is aircraft every month along with training and line indoc.

[anonymity]

No pilots at Encore will see the higher wages until at least mid 2014. The reason is aircraft every month along with training and line indoc.

flyer1492, Don't mistake higher wages, for higher utilization, they are not the same thing.
85-90 hrs a month at 4hrs/day is 21-23 days a month.

Don't get me wrong, Jazz 1st year FO wages are not much better at 42.44/hr, but year two is 47.76 which is 9.00/hr more than Encore!

I think realistically you'll be looking at 85-90 hrs a month. That'll put you in the $39k to $41k range. Pretty comparable to other Dash operators in YYC.

whiteguy,
Working more for close to the same money is not a GOOD thing!

[DH772]

I think realistically you'll be looking at 85-90 hrs a month. That'll put you in the $39k to $41k range

90 hours per month?? Most dash operators I'd say would average in the 80 hour range.

[whiteguy]

No pilots at Encore will see the higher wages until at least mid 2014. The reason is aircraft every month along with training and line indoc.

flyer1492, Don't mistake higher wages, for higher utilization, they are not the same thing.
85-90 hrs a month at 4hrs/day is 21-23 days a month.

Don't get me wrong, Jazz 1st year FO wages are not much better at 42.44/hr, but year two is 47.76 which is 9.00/hr more than Encore!

I think realistically you'll be looking at 85-90 hrs a month. That'll put you in the $39k to $41k range. Pretty comparable to other Dash operators in YYC.

whiteguy,
Working more for close to the same money is not a GOOD thing!

So I guess we need everyone to bring the wages up. Good luck!

I was showing those numbers as a comparison, yet everyone use then 70 hrs and 20 days numbers when talking about Encore.

[CpnCrunch]

Unless you've been in a coma for the last 10 years, 32k is not a perfectly livable wage, in fact if you have a wife and 1 child you qualify for food stamps!

I didn't say you could support a family on a single wage of 32k. But if you don't have children and either your partner is working or you're single, it's perfectly livable.

I completely agree that a dash-8 FO with a few thousand hours should be earning $50k+, but that isn't the world we live in. Westjet doesn't seem to have any difficult in attracting candidates for the positions, if this forum is anything to go by. And that is the root of the problem - supply and demand for pilots.

[justwork]

Anyway, $32k is a perfectly livable wage unless you want to buy a shiny new pickup truck every year and own a huge carbuncle of a house in Calgary.

Maybe if you're in your moms basement. Rent, insurance, gas, groceries, clothes, 1/10th the social life of your friends who don't fly, bills, $32K evaporates pretty facking quickly. I know, I lived off a little more than that for 3 years on my own, when I upgraded I had $15K in debt and a 17 year old vehicle that was everything I could do to keep drivable. So, in my experience $32K can't be done unless you're in subsidized living (parents), or hitting up the church for meals. A company that boasts record loads and record profits should keep the boasting to themselves unless then plan on paying professionals properly. That's what an encore FO is, a professional pilot, being paid substantial less than whwat he/she is actually worth. The captain wages, equally laughable. Maybe in a few years, when they're really moving people they will revise the wages, but why would they? They will always keep getting pilots with the 737 as the carrot. Good luck on the wages!

[wjhr]

Once the routes get built up and more aircraft come online, the schedules will be targeting efficient blocks between 80 and 85 hrs. It will, again, take a little time so that's what you can take your calculator out on. If you can afford the esp that will help too. 70 is a base pay guarantee. The direct entry captain spots are just about all filled too.
Enhanced Flow details are coming soon for those that are curious.
There will be more flow definition for career path and a few date of hire enhancements (if it get accepted) by the association is what I'm told.

[flyer 1492]

Once the routes get built up and more aircraft come online, the schedules will be targeting efficient blocks between 80 and 85 hrs. It will, again, take a little time so that's what you can take your calculator out on. If you can afford the esp that will help too. 70 is a base pay guarantee. The direct entry captain spots are just about all filled too.
Enhanced Flow details are coming soon for those that are curious.
There will be more flow definition for career path and a few date of hire enhancements (if it get accepted) by the association is what I'm told.

Work out the numbers, IF you are lucky and do 82 hours in a month as an f/o and take out the 10% and take the bare bones of the flex plan (hope you don't get sick) you will walk away with a whopping $960.14 every two weeks. At least twice a year you will have an extra paycheque to splurge on.
I would love to see anyone try and survive on that here in calgary.

Everyone at Encore management has been saying that an announcement regarding the flow thru is just about ready... Really, it's been in discussions for over a year. Do your years of service count for pay when you transfer over or do you start at the bottom of the pay scale???

Flyer

[wjhr]

Call it a return on investment. You put in a dime, you get 2 back a year later.
It's worked for 16 years. Why not a couple more? Don't forget that the time spent at encore is minimal too. The way you talk it's like an eternity. With a plane a month and flow to wj in a couple years it shouldn't take too long to get off the 40k. It hasn't been discussed for over a year either. Maybe since January. Flow is very complicated when it comes to downturns. It works well when all cylinders are firing but say for example you are laying off at one division or the other or say Westjet needed to sell assets to survive or you acquire say porter how does or doesn't that work? I'm personally confident some news will come this or next week.
It will be a good ride. There is also a lot of retirements coming down the pipe too.

[flyer 1492]

Just a friendly reminder that the ESP is YOUR pension fund and is vested before you can touch it. Isn't Encore owned by WJ? Flow thru would work up and down would it not? If the economy is really bad then it would be layoffs. Encore pilots have to wait at least 3 years before they are allowed to flow over, unless you don't have the experience in the f/o's for the upgrades, then the wait could be longer.

[wjhr]

Call it a pension if you want or call it extra money. That's for you to decide! So you say bump and flush works well? What is the cost of all the retraining? What about carrying years of service over, what would that cost? What happens if there were an acquisition like say porter? Should holidays be honoured and brought over too while we are at it too, or can the airline just absorb the extra holidays say in July? What does that cost equal? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Where does it say you have to stay 3 years? Did I miss something? Regardless it sounds like the solution is close and if you look around in the industry within Canada, it's going to be a neat option with a clear career path. Some will shoot holes in it I'm sure but hey look who is growing around Canada and look who is shrinking and for what reasons!

[anonymity]

Some will shoot holes in it I'm sure but hey look who is growing around Canada and look who is shrinking and for what reasons!

wjhr, so not only are you the lowest paid q400 pilots or likely even 705 pilots, you're going to brag about shrinking other airlines as a result, classy!

The direct entry captain spots are just about all filled too.

From what I'm hearing, you had to go with King Air pilots to fill the last of those seats, gee I can't think of why(sarcasm)
It's funny you mention buying porter, I would think WJ pilots would be 100% against that and not agreeing to terms in a flow that cover that base. That's a real threat for them right now, with the order for regional jets but certainly nobody predicted Encore flying jets or did they!

[flyer 1492]

Flow is very complicated when it comes to downturns. It works well when all cylinders are firing but say for example you are laying off at one division or the other or say Westjet needed to sell assets to survive or you acquire say porter how does or doesn't that work? I'm personally confident some news will come this or next week.

Training costs are part of the business, and why does Porter keep coming up.

[wjhr]

False about the king air guys. Not bragging. If you want my opinion like you have yours, I don't see it as a threat.
Porter is an example. Training costs will be part if it as guys flow over to wj.

[DH772]

False about the king air guys. Not bragging. If you want my opinion like you have yours, I don't see it as a threat.
Porter is an example. Training costs will be part if it as guys flow over to wj.

You sure about that wjhr? I know king air drivers not only interviewing but being placed in the pool.

[whiteguy]

False about the king air guys. Not bragging. If you want my opinion like you have yours, I don't see it as a threat.
Porter is an example. Training costs will be part if it as guys flow over to wj.

You sure about that wjhr? I know king air drivers not only interviewing but being placed in the pool.

So which is it? King Air people being hired and put in a seat or interviewing and put in the pool? Bit of a difference I think. I know 1900 guys in the pool for a couple months and Dash drivers going from walk through to hired in less than 2 weeks. I guess guys can sit in the pool and will get passed up as long as more experienced guys keep applying.

[DH772]

Touché !!

[wjhr]

That's exactly it. TY white. If they like a guy but is not quite ready for a direct entry spot, then they are in the pool.
The fall courses will allow a guy to sit through at least 6 months then upgrade. Time for some 705 time and some performance assessment.
I know lots of metro/beech guys will now be getting calls for an interview now that the directs have mostly been filled.

[FICU]

So what level of experience does the average Captain being hired have and more specifically how much experience in the left seat of 705 machines?

[wjhr]

Everything from soup to nuts. I would say the average that I have seen is 5k TT. Flying at places like porter, jazz, calm air, caribou, transwest and hawk air. Military off the gonzo too.

[neophyte]

Wjhr.

What are the projected retirements for the next 5 years at mainline?

Thanks.

Neo

[sepia]

Some will shoot holes in it I'm sure but hey look who is growing around Canada and look who is shrinking and for what reasons!

Both Air Canada and Porter are projecting growth. Might want to do even the most rudimentary fact check before you post total nonsense. People might start to question the rest of your "facts" once they catch on.