Crazy used aircraft prices

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

ScudRunner
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3239
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:58 am

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by ScudRunner »

rob-air wrote:
. wrote: Think about it if you own it for 10 years (simple math here) 75k /10 =$7500 year/50hours =$150hour just to have the plane not including fuel, insurance, maintenance, hangar, charts and pubs.
Bottom line if it fly's floats or F#@$'s rent it!
I doubt that a c-172 worth 75k now will be totally worthless in ten years, you could easily get some money back if you can sell it.

What really amazes me is the MSRP compare to market value at present time. Let say you find a nice model M or N, you cough out the the 50+k to get it, well that same plane sold brand new for less than half that.

''The 1975 model 172M sold for US$16,055 for the 172, US$17,890 for the Skyhawk and US$20,335 for the Skyhawk II''
-From wiki
ok very true it wont be worth zero, so now you have "75K equity" in a plane. That $150/Hour plus expenses aircraft was probably costing you around $250/hour when you include the rest to operate it. Now since your not paying the bank your only shelling out $100/hour not including gas. Now you go and sell it for lets say what you "paid" for it at 75K (good luck) so with interest, hangar,insurance, annual maintenance maybe a jug or two over the past decade easily 5K a year out of pocket before turning a prop so you put out close to 100K+ so 25K to fly 500 hours equals 50 an hour plus gas. However that is a pretty picture I painted and lets say you ding the prop or need a new engine cracks corrosion new radio etc etc the numbers will then get waaay scarier. End of the day unless you fly 150 hours a year I would partner up with at least two others so the plane gets used that way if their is a big maintenance issue its not all on your shoulders. Also pooling your resources you might be able to get into a little nicer machine than you could afford solo.

I know I know im a total buzz kill however if we are talking about a Pitts or something other than a 172 its completely justifiable. :D
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Post by Beefitarian »

Hear him! If you're not flying over 120 hours per year you should save money and rent.
Colonel Sanders wrote:
a 170 with 2 530s
If for some odd reason this aircraft came into
my possession, I would remove both 530's, sell
them, and replace them with:

intercom
VHF comm
transponder/encoder
airgizmo adapter for portable GPS/tablet

and I would pocket the cash and enjoy the
better display in the panel.
Airgizmo, is that like a dual or bad elf? If so I could not agree more for a perfect VFR single engine land plane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Box car
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:59 am

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by Box car »

Never mind 172's. Why are 50 year old super cubs with no avionics going for a 100k. Tube and fabric piper products are unreal what some sell for.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by photofly »

And if he doesn't push the paper to comply with
the IFR TSO (etc ad nauseum) for the installation,
it's VFR-only.
And if you want to use it for instrument approaches (and why wouldn't you) it has to be connected to a CDI-type display - the GPS front panel isn't acceptable - and a set of annunciators, and a lone AME can't do that either. Doesn't it also have to be flight tested?
---------- ADS -----------
 
NeverBlue
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:53 pm

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by NeverBlue »

an AME (not an AMO) can
install a G430/530 as a VFR-only nav-comm.
true...but it still has to be done to an STC or LSTC...in Canada

No???

unless of course it's Owner Maintained
---------- ADS -----------
 
NeverBlue
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:53 pm

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by NeverBlue »

Never mind 172's. Why are 50 year old super cubs with no avionics going for a 100k. Tube and fabric piper products are unreal what some sell for.
performance!

...and of course supply, demand and what the market can bear.

I've flown in a Husky many times and on a cold winters day I swear it took all of 50 feet to get airborne....maybe less :shock:

...very valuable in the bush and much cheaper than a swing wing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by Colonel Sanders »

it still has to be done to an STC
Specifically what CAR would be contravened if
no STC was referenced for a VFR-only install
of a G430/530?

What CAR would be contravened if no STC was
referenced for an install of a KX-155?

Is an STC required for a single VHF comm install
such as a KY-97?!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by Colonel Sanders on Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by Colonel Sanders »

click on http://www.airgizmos.com

For about $100 you can buy a bracket
from them which allows you to click a
portable GPS (low cost, plenty of features)
into your panel, for a flush installation.

Cables are hidden. No STC required.

Image

For "VFR-only" use, of course. Personally
you get a lot more bang for your buck than
a used G430/G530 for VFR.
---------- ADS -----------
 
NeverBlue
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:53 pm

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by NeverBlue »

Specifically what CAR would be contravened if
no STC was referenced for a VFR-only install
of a G430/530?

What CAR would be contravened if no STC was
referenced for an install of a KX-155?

Is an STC required for a single VHF comm install
such as a KY-97?!
well my interpretation...from 571.06
(2) The criteria to be used to determine which data applies to modifications and repairs is as follows:

(a) All major modifications and major repairs shall be performed in accordance with either “approved” data or “specified” data. A statement of “No technical objection”, or similar wording, by the manufacturer does not constitute “approved”, “acceptable”, or “specified” data and shall not be used without further approval by the Minister.

(b) All other modifications and repairs shall be performed in accordance with “acceptable” data.
“major modification” - means an alteration to the type design of an aeronautical product in respect of which a type certificate has been issued that has other than a negligible effect on the weight and centre-of-gravity limits, structural strength, performance, power plant operation, flight characteristics or other qualities affecting its airworthiness or environmental characteristics; (modification majeure)
(amended 2009/12/01; previous version)
“approved data” - includes:

(a) type certificates, supplemental type certificates, part design approvals, Canadian technical standard order (CAN-TSO) design approvals or repair design approvals, including equivalent foreign documents which have undergone the type design examination process set-out in Subpart 521 of the CARs or are otherwise accepted in Canada; and
(amended 2009/12/01; previous version)


...the grey area of course being the definition of "negligible effect"
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Shiny Side Up
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Group W bench

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by Shiny Side Up »

iflyforpie wrote:Careful there. I've seen a few guys get stung with getting planes with nice 530s or 430s from the US and then having to have them placarded 'VFR only' because of being installed on a field mod.
There's always that too. My point was rather though that a ship touted as "IFR capable" is hardly so up here when one considers it has a whopping 32 gallons of gas. Maybe more useful down stateside, but certainly not worth the trouble up here. They also don't turn it into a $95,000 dollar airplane, which is the main point.
Rookie50 wrote:Good airplanes here will command a premium because there is SO MUCH junk here compared to the US. I didn't even seriously look here, but went right to an import. And when I sell mine -- if that is-- it will command a premium because of the history and condition.
There's a lot of junk stateside too, you just got to do some shopping to find out. The states merely offer a larger selection of airplanes (both junk and good deals).
NeverBlue wrote:
I guess that depends how you look at it.

I would rather have a 170 with 2 530s than one with old non-repairable avionics that needs to be retrofitted.
I would also say it's worth at least $30k of the asking price to already have it done and not have to deal with the headaches that can arise from getting it done after purchase.
Also they are desirable units right now and can be easily sold on the used market for some quick cash if you could live with only one in the airplane.
The dual GPS set up in most light airplanes is extremely gratuitous given the purpose of such machines. As above, given range speed and payload of the airplane they're not really helping you get anywhere. At the end of the day, I don't want to pay a ton for a lot of avionics when an airplane without any will do for most of my purposes. YMMV.
What's a 50 year old Super Cub worth, or a 30 year old Husky if you can find one, with almost no avionics and 2 seats...just shy of 100K?
Actually I know a fellow who picked up a nice Husky for around $65K, complete with a G430. Razor edition to boot.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by Colonel Sanders »

my interpretation
Heh. You probably want an STC for an intercom :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
 
azimuthaviation
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:34 pm

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by azimuthaviation »

NeverBlue wrote:
an AME (not an AMO) can
install a G430/530 as a VFR-only nav-comm.
true...but it still has to be done to an STC or LSTC...in Canada

No???

unless of course it's Owner Maintained
If its a VFR install it doesnt need an STC. If its owner maintained it would still need to be installed IAW an STC if it was to be certified IFR. And if you plan to fly it into transponder airspace you still need to have certified equipment which includes bi-annual tests IAW CARs std 571 B and F. You also have to have your ELT certified every year, too.
---------- ADS -----------
 
crazy_aviator
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 917
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:13 am

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by crazy_aviator »

The air gizmo mount for the 295-495 series is a simple push in to click mount ( removable for your car ) Is it "approved" for aviation use as a "permanent" install,,,,? ,,,, depends on WHO you talk to ! Look at the unwieldy and UNSAFE yoke clamp mounted GPS s we see being "installed" by pilots on the tubes ,,, interfering with control movements, engine controls etc,,,Which is safer ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
NeverBlue
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:53 pm

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by NeverBlue »

Heh. You probably want an STC for an intercom
http://skiesmag.com/news/articles/19982 ... 0-and.html

Just say'n...
---------- ADS -----------
 
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 8132
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Winterfell...

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by iflyforpie »

crazy_aviator wrote:The air gizmo mount for the 295-495 series is a simple push in to click mount ( removable for your car ) Is it "approved" for aviation use as a "permanent" install,,,,? ,,,, depends on WHO you talk to ! Look at the unwieldy and UNSAFE yoke clamp mounted GPS s we see being "installed" by pilots on the tubes ,,, interfering with control movements, engine controls etc,,,Which is safer ?
I am so paranoid about those installations. I remember reading a story of a 152 that nearly bit it recovering from a stall because of a PTT cord that wrapped itself around the heater knob.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by AirFrame »

Colonel Sanders wrote:...And if he doesn't push the paper to comply with the IFR TSO (etc ad nauseum) for the installation, it's VFR-only.
Yet another reason to own an amateur-built aircraft. You can install your own IFR GPS, sign off that it was installed in accordance with standard industry practise, file the change with TC, and you too can fly IFR.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Post by Beefitarian »

Colonel Sanders wrote:click on http://www.airgizmos.com
Looks like nice stuff. The kneeboard is pricey but I suppose it does have some sort of cord for power.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: Crazy used aircraft prices

Post by Colonel Sanders »

It's kind of sad, how many people have lost
sight of the objective, and think that the most
important thing in aviation is excessive and
totally unnecessary paperwork.

Because I am old-fashioned, the most important
thing in aviation to me is safety. This occasionally
enrages the paper pushers on the ground, who
have their empires to protect, I guess.

A good example is the paper pushers doing everything
they can, to stop people from installing shoulder
harnesses in older aircraft. One must wonder if
there is any legal liability associated with that.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Post by Beefitarian »

Even with a well intentioned law, sometimes the people it was intended to control or stop just figure out another way around it. Meanwhile those who want to play by the rules end up frustrated by the extra paperwork.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”