This is how people get killed (video)

[arctic_slim]

Well it's illegal according to CARS, but I guess he's lucky you can't see the registration on the video. I like fly-bys but when they are done in a contraolled manner, briefed and planned. But that one was crazy low and dangerous in my opinion.

I am surprized the guy in Fort Good Hope (thanks for the link Donald) only got 9 months jail and 2 year ban. I wonder i he will go back to flying after that, or if any operator would even hire him with something like that on his record. He will not be able to fly to the states with a record now so he will be limited somewhat.

[trey kule]

I like fly-bys but when they are done in a contraolled manner, briefed and planned

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong? The accident in Ft. good Hope was planned and briefed, I expect the pilot did not plan to do it in an uncontrolled manner. If you are doing anything like this and something unplanned happens, people get hurt and planes get bent.
Which is my gentle way of saying only at air shows, where typically it is only the pilot who suffers.

There is simply no acceptable rationale for doing buzz jobs...None.

[Colonel Sanders]

Bad things happen when people treat low altitude
maneuvering with contempt, and attempt to teach
themselves how to do it, on the spur of the moment.

Maybe VFR pilots should teach themselves instrument
flying, on the spur of the moment, when they first
need to enter cloud?

Believe it or not, one of the biggest culprits of treating
low altitude maneuvering with contempt, is military pilots.
Watch footage of any military pilot rolling and try not to
cringe. They always lose altitude, which is almost always
fatal down low.

Ask Douglas Bader about the merits of unplanned low-altitude
rolls.

[Shiny Side Up]

Maybe VFR pilots should teach themselves instrument
flying, on the spur of the moment, when they first
need to enter cloud?

That's how lots of them do it.

I've often wondered if one could make a coorelation between high income private pilots and the entering cloud related crashes and the lower income pilot and the low altitude shenanigans crashes. One group is more likely to be in a hurry to get some where, and the other group more inclined to do some "Hey y'all, watch this!" sort of activity.

Ask Douglas Bader about the merits of unplanned low-altitude
rolls.

I like his log book commentary about that.

Crashed slow-rolling near ground. Bad show.

[goldeneagle]

I've often wondered if one could make a coorelation between high income private pilots and the entering cloud related crashes and the lower income pilot and the low altitude shenanigans crashes.

Why are pilots always trying to make disparaging commentary regarding high income folks, and flying. Just look at some examples here as regular posters on Avcan. I can think of one in particular. Owns a hangar full of Pitts, a Maule, and a 421 at last count. Doesn't fly for a living, so would fall into your 'private pilot' category, even tho probably holds an atpl. One gets to own a hangar full of airplanes one of two ways.

a) Born with the silver spoon, a family fortune.
b) Worked ones way into the high income category.

For our local resident, numerous references to papa being a former 104 jock, probably rules out the silver spoon quite handily, I've NEVER seen a high income come from the military, except in a very few select positions, ie surgeon. Pilots definitely dont get into that category.

I may hold an atpl, but, it's an artifact of the old days, when I fell into the low income category. I figured out that I would never get out of that category flying airplanes for a living, and made a change in 1990. Today I probably fly less than many typical PPL types, and when I do fly, it's with the express intention of getting from point A to point B, on a timeframe that precludes driving. Does that automatically make me dangerous just because I no longer fly for a living, and use an aircraft to conduct business trips ?

When I read accident reports, which I do quite regularily, the one correlation I see that stands out, the VAST majority of accidents have an ATPL in the driver seat. I could easily jump to the conclusion, ATPL licenses are far and above the most likely accident candidates. If I correlate income levels of the pilots, against the accident rates, I'll very likely come to the conclusion, ATPL pilots making less than $75K per year, are the most dangerous category of pilots out there.

I dunno why you folks always try paint the 'high income' as some sort of derogatory term regarding folks. If you get off your butt, and work your way into that circle like some of us have done, you will quickly realize, the folks in that peer group are in general very smart folks, that's how they got there. Most of them know exactly how to do a risk analysis, cost benefit analysis, and where to draw various lines, and even more importantly, WHY to draw those lines. There are exceptions in every group, and once in a while, one of those exceptions buys a very expensive airplane, and breaks it. Then again, far more often, they will buy a very expensive airplane, then hire a professional pilot to drive, who then goes out and breaks it.

Just look at the string of recent things posted here. A professionally flown air ambualance, turned into a smoking pile of junk by a pilot hired to fly it. Another thread about a challenger, similar story. Another one a while back, very spendy private airplane just out of the factory, fell down from high altitude. Was the owner flying ? or was it the expert hired to fly that plane ? And yes, there is one where it was a similar expensive airplane, flown by the owner. But, high income aircraft owners by no means have a lock on accidents, the ATPL hired folks are WAY ahead in that category, and some of those come about from making choices as stupid, or even more stupid than the choices made by owners. And in some cases, we really have no clue why that particular airplane met up with terra firma where it did. If you dig, you will find instances of this in both the owner flown, and hired help flown categories.

I can also say with some level of certainty, if I was to choose to do some serious low level flying in the near future, I would NOT head off to the ranks of working ATPL pilots to find someone capable of serious training in that environment. I'd probably go to the local expert in that field, who must be a high income individual, working outside of aviation to produce that income. It's the only way he could possibly afford that hangar full of airplanes, and the Youtube videos make it pretty clear why he would be my first choice to get training on low level stuff.

I think trying to correlate income levels with accidents, just a way of making an excuse for not being part of that group, in a way that feels good to the rest of the pilot group.

[Shiny Side Up]

Wasn't trying to be derogatory, but the simple fact is that one noticeably sees a difference in the types of airplanes the two groups usually have as well as the types of flying. For example, I doubt that there are going to be many doctors and lawyers crashing airplanes while checking cows, and I doubt there are going to be many farmers crashing airplanes trying to get somewhere on business meetings. Maybe income difference would be a bad term for what I'm after here since I know some reasonably wealthy farmers. Maybe urban vs rural pilots would be a better comparison. Unplanned and untrained aerobatics seems to be the realm of rural pilots.

Sorry your feelings were hurt. And incidentally if you would have read closer, I wasn't saying that high income guys were worse, just are more likely when they crash, the cause to be different than low income guys. But lets substitute rural and urban if it makes you feel better.

[Pop n Fresh]

I understand what you're writing goldeneagle, but.. The quote mentions poor folk possibly being more reckless near the ground.

Edit: fast posted!

I think it's just a bit of human nature to complain about the "other classes." Example, "If rich white folks did not come to Hawaii to plant sugar cane and oppress the natives..."

I might just not see them but... No one seems to be focused on preventing a guy from stripping down to his undies, living in a hut, trying to catch food with a string and home made bone hook. I suspect it would be a difficult way to stay heavy though.

That seems to be the real best part of working hard in my opinion. Less time to consider how spoiled even us "oppressed" people are in the modern world. Then again I did enjoy giving my wife a taste of trying to pay for all the hamburgers for a few years.

[JigglyBus]

[quote="goldeneagle"]When I read accident reports, which I do quite regularily, the one correlation I see that stands out, the VAST majority of accidents have an ATPL in the driver seat.[quote]

I think you're coming to the wrong conclusions. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of accidents involve pilots with private licenses, or less. You're mistaken correlation is because you made a relationship between accident reports you read which contain pilots with ATPL's, rather than accidents which contain pilots with ATPL's. The vast number of accidents don't have accident reports (well TSB accident reports anyways). There are tonnes of accidents where Joe Bob runs his Cessan150 into a ditch that you never hear about.

So while it's probably true that most accident reports details ATPL's, most accidents in fact do not.

[Shiny Side Up]

In my defense, I should also re specify that I was referring to private pilots, though round about I was referring to people flying for private uses whether they had a higher license or not.

[arctic_slim]

I like fly-bys but when they are done in a contraolled manner, briefed and planned

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong? The accident in Ft. good Hope was planned and briefed, I expect the pilot did not plan to do it in an uncontrolled manner. If you are doing anything like this and something unplanned happens, people get hurt and planes get bent.
Which is my gentle way of saying only at air shows, where typically it is only the pilot who suffers.

There is simply no acceptable rationale for doing buzz jobs...None.

That's what I meant, fly bys at airshows with no people on the ground trying to see how close they cna get to the plane. The one in Ft Good Hpe might have been planned, but poorly planned.

[180]

Holy shit that was so close to going so bad!

I hope the pilot flying has watched that video 100 times and wakes up in the middle of the night drenched in sweat and feeling sick to his stomach at the thought of how close he came to killing and/or dying.

So freakin' close to going soooo wrong. There's no way that guy knew his wing was 24" off the ground in his 60 degree bank, and there's no way he had any control over where that idiot ran with the camera at the last second.

Brutal!!!

[carbeerater]

That could easily have turned into this:



Not the greatest quality video but I have seen another on tv that shows the semi-circular dent in the wing (of a yellow td possibly a cub) after landing. Apparently the fellow who got hit was a reporter and he lived to tell the tale.

Seeing as how it is not the first time someone on the ground has been hit or killed by an airplane, the guy flying the caravan should be prosecuted. When piloting an aircraft, safety should be number one priority.
Its not supposed to be about seeing how close you can get to death or disaster without actually experiencing it!
This guy has no respect for his own safety or that of his stupid dumbass buddy on the ground.
Speaking of which, it almost looks like the guy wanted to get hit. What is wrong with people?

[carbeerater]

Now, my attitude is more like "That isn't what aeroplanes are for"

That's right! +1



Why does the style (italics) not transfer in a quote?

[Hawkerflyer]

Natural selection...avoided.

[Blakey]

Believe it or not, one of the biggest culprits of treating
low altitude maneuvering with contempt, is military pilots.
Watch footage of any military pilot rolling and try not to
cringe. They always lose altitude, which is almost always
fatal down low.

There's one now!

[xsbank]

Morons. Should be shot and p*ssed on.

[GyvAir]

Something about this video tells me is is viral and crafted in a studio somewhere. Not unlike the wing shredding acro plane lands perfectly well, the eagle Montreal that flies off with a baby, despite no eagles in Montreal.
My hunch tells me this come out in the days/weeks ahead. I don't buy it at all. I call a well done fake.

My opinion also. Wait and see!

Maybe.
It's been out there for a while though. Just gone re-viral for some reason.

Uploaded on 23 Apr 2010:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D30oGBj08Vs

[GyvAir]

Same guy posted this video the day before. At 3:25 it shows a nice shiny black-with-single-white-stripe Caravan from Greensburg PA, dropping bombs at Skydive San Marcos in TX. The San Marcos drop zone looks just like the background in the fly by video. Leads me to believe it's probably simply as stupid as it looks.

http://youtu.be/qVccrdcOAFU?t=3m20s

[Colonel Sanders]

This buzz job ended well:



https://imgur.com/a/Vyiok#0

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1 ... ed_in_the/

He's a front-page hero!

After take-off It had become a common
occurrence for me to give the attendees a
"goodbye" flyby.

I guess as nobody's feelings got hurt,
it's ok. A "learning experience". He
goes on to say:

I am trying to move forward in a positive light,
having learned much from my mistake

Well, isn't that wonderful. Too bad he couldn't
have learned from the previous 100 years worth
of buzz jobs that went horribly wrong.

Last year I went flying with a very nice husband
and wife from Texas in their C340. A month after
that, that very nice husband and wife and two
friends of theirs died during a high speed, low
altitude buzz job in that same C340. This is all
that was left of them:



I know people here think that I don't know a
f__king thing about aviation compared to them,
but please ...

Don't try to teach yourself low-altitude maneuvering
on the spur of the moment, ok? The weighted
cost far outweighs any momentary benefit.

Again, I don't know much about aviation compared
to you experts here, but it's really depressing,
watching people kill themselves, year after year,
decade after decade, doing the same dumb stuff.

[Dagwood]

^ The worst part of that is now the people his organization helped with medical aid are now without care because of his stupidity. He now feels bad and is trying to raise $200K for a new plane.

He mentions several times that they couldn't get insurance because of the high-risk flying they do. Not that it would help in this case anyway...

All for a cheap thrill.

[Shiny Side Up]

The worst part is that he had other people with him when he decided to do something stupid. The happy face following the "enjoy the photos" is a little surreal, one gets the idea some people really don't comprehend the magnitude of what they do.

[double-j]

What went through your mind as you realized you were going to crash?

permalink

[–]zambuka42[S] 42 points 1 day ago

You don't think that way. If I had decided that there was no way to save it, I could have hard ruddered to the right to spin us in to a more open space. But that requires a firm DECISION that you are not going to make it and then INTENTIONALLY crash the plane in the hopes for a better result. For me, and I wasn't sure if i was lying to myself with the memory until I went back to the crash site, it felt like we were coming out of it. And we almost did

Not only that but this mental Colussus thought if he had more time he could have limited the impact by applying hard rudder to avoid the rough terrain in front of him for flatter terrain to his right.

Methinks the reason the passengers and crew were saved had absolutely nothing to do with the pilot. On the contrary, if he had a little more time...

fricken . Yeager!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Just read the postings of the 206 driver above. Stupid truly is forever

[GyvAir]

Can't say for sure of course, but I suspect this is the aircraft featured in the Beer Light is ON video..

[Pratt X 3]

This goes with the above picture:

Narrative:
A Cessna 208B, N102VE, operated by Skydive Greensburg, had a loss of engine power and sustained substantial damage when it nosed over in a cornfield after a forced landing near the Greensburg-Decatur County Airport (I34), Indiana. The skydiving flight with 14 skydivers on board the airplane departed Greensburg-Decatur on a local flight at 10:15. The pilot was not injured and all the skydivers parachuted safely from the airplane after the complete loss of engine power.

The pilot reported that the airplane was climbing through 7,000 feet msl when he heard an explosion followed by a metal grinding noise coming from the engine section of the airplane. He felt the airplane vibrate, and smoke began to fill the cabin. He reported that the engine was not producing any power so he shut the fuel off and performed procedures to rid the cabin of smoke. He leveled the airplane at 5,000 feet msl and set the flaps to 20-degree so that the 14 skydivers could exit the airplane. He attempted a forced landing to runway 18 (3,433 feet by 40 feet, asphalt).The airplane was too high and fast during the approach so he executed a forced landing to a cornfield off the departure end of runway 18. When the airplane landed in the cornfield, the propeller and left wing impacted the terrain, and the airplane sustained substantial damage. Inspection of the engine revealed that the compressor turbine (CT) blades failed as a result of blade creep. The engine manufacturer had issued Service Information Letters (SIL) concerning recommended borescope inspection procedures to inspect CT blades for blade creep and fatigue cracks. The airplane's owner reported that he was unaware of the SIL's, and did not perform the borescope inspections that were recommended by the engine manufacturer's SIL.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The total loss of engine power during the en route climb due to a compressor turbine failure as a result of blade creep. Also causal was the inadequate maintenance performed by the airplane's owner."

http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 20080601-0