Encore gets one list and a new pay scale.

[True North]

I see no change until ceetification takes place.

Exactly how will that change anything?

[sstaurus]

This is all pretty depressing for those of us who wanted to work for WJ one day... I reallly don't want to go through Encore first. Even AC is all rouge now... Perhaps I will just stick it out with 703/4 after all..

[snowcone]

At AC you do not have to go to rouge necessarly. If there are openings at mainline newhires are eligible for those positions. The last bid showed approx 7 EMB open positions so those could be filled with newhres

[dhc#]

This is all pretty depressing for those of us who wanted to work for WJ one day... I really don't want to go through Encore first. Even AC is all rouge now... Perhaps I will just stick it out with 703/4 after all..

Unfortunately, Encore is fast becoming a long wait/dead end to try and get to mainline.

"Ah-ha-ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Good night" - Johnny Rotten - The Sex Pistols

[Wacko]

This is all pretty depressing for those of us who wanted to work for WJ one day... I really don't want to go through Encore first. Even AC is all rouge now... Perhaps I will just stick it out with 703/4 after all..

Unfortunately, Encore is fast becoming a long wait/dead end to try and get to mainline.

"Ah-ha-ha. Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Good night" - Johnny Rotten - The Sex Pistols

I can't imagine WestJet or any company for that matter flow through 100% from within like that. It would cripple Encore yearly. I'm sure there's always going to be hiring from outside.... the requirements just might go up.

[brooks]

At least with Encore you are flying brand new (Jet like) performance aircraft and not some clapped out RJ200 or buzzing Dash8 300. The people are young typically and the environment positive. It only gets better from there. It would be nice of course to see a few things in the near term accomplished like 20% ESP and only 16 days on max. See what happens.

[Oleo 4]

Their is no place for entitlement in this industry! If you do not want to work at Encore or think you are too good for them then maybe you shouldn't hold out for WestJet with the hopes of being successful. Gina and the crew do a great job hiring some amazing people that I am proud to call colleagues!

I remember having 3500-4500 hours and flying in the bush loading drill steel hoping one day the industry picks up again and I can be employed full time year round. Now, (and I'm thankful others didn't have to do what I did) the same time qualifies on a Q400 as Captain with 0 time on the frame and a world class airline behind them.

Sorry, my rant is over

[sstaurus]

It's funny how wanting a decent wage and wawcon is considered as having a 'sense of entitlement'.

[flyer 1492]

Just curious, how many pilots at encore have flowed over to WJ this year?

[BE20 Driver]

I believe 4 people have flowed up.

A few people I've talked to seem to agree that the WJPA memo indicates that flow won't increase beyond 25% any time soon.

[PositiveRate27]

How is flow through determined? Is it based on your date of hire, or are there other factors which influence who gets to move up?

[piggy]

Fact, the scope and different classes of employees is a broken model in Canada as far as employee moral and culture goes. Just look at the jazz mainline relationship . You take care if employees they take care of pax, they take care of company. This is a giant leap for aviation in canada, for the pilot profession and for westjet's long term survival. Westjet will probably have at least 1500 mainline and 800 encore pilots 10 years from now that's 2300 pilots. What does ac have, 3000?

[rudder]

Fact, the scope and different classes of employees is a broken model in Canada as far as employee moral and culture goes. Just look at the jazz mainline relationship . You take care if employees they take care of pax, they take care of company. This is a giant leap for aviation in canada, for the pilot profession and for westjet's long term survival. Westjet will probably have at least 1500 mainline and 800 encore pilots 10 years from now that's 2300 pilots. What does ac have, 3000?

You think that having an institutional B-scale (ENCORE) is the answer for the profession and the industry? I hope that you are not in a leadership position at WJPA.

[piggy]

What would you suggest as a solution? Two seperate listS to whipsaw each other into oblivion, It has to start somewhere. One list is a start.

[DH772]

It's funny how wanting a decent wage and wawcon is considered as having a 'sense of entitlement'.

No you're right. It's not. But not being knowledgable on companies gives you sense of entitlement. Ex. Rouge is not for everyone. Specially people already established at mainline. But for a new hire like you, please tell me what's wrong with making 60k a year working 12-15 days a month?
Hence your sense of entitlement isn't just merely pay/working conditions. It's more so you want to go direct entry fo at wj.

[DH772]

Westjet will probably have at least 1500 mainline and 800 encore pilots 10 years from now that's 2300 pilots. What does ac have, 3000?

So let me get your question straight.

You're comparing wj and wj regional staffing levels 10 YEARS from now to AC current pilot staffing level

Speechless. You're SMRT

[sstaurus]

It's funny how wanting a decent wage and wawcon is considered as having a 'sense of entitlement'.

No you're right. It's not. But not being knowledgable on companies gives you sense of entitlement. Ex. Rouge is not for everyone. Specially people already established at mainline. But for a new hire like you, please tell me what's wrong with making 60k a year working 12-15 days a month?
Hence your sense of entitlement isn't just merely pay/working conditions. It's more so you want to go direct entry fo at wj.

So, according to you the flow-through program is not a necessary carrot to get people to go to Encore? It's just tiring that the good wages are always 'just around the corner' in aviation, but you wait many years, to see the corner moving farther away all the time..

[pacman007]

The flow through was a incentive for the first 100, they will all be at mainline in 3 years. It's not for number 150+.

[bearinmind]

They have 100 pilots, 4 people flow so far, I don't know if you will see them all at mainline in 3 years.

[Red1]

guys the Min flow is 25% MIN. The flow will increase once Encore gets a bit bigger, and a few more people are there. Just remember this is the only regional in North America with guaranteed flow and one list. Things will get better,

[leftoftrack]

guys the Min flow is 25% MIN. The flow will increase once Encore gets a bit bigger, and a few more people are there. Just remember this is the only regional in North America with guaranteed flow and one list. Things will get better,

Envoy does.

[DH772]

So, according to you the flow-through program is not a necessary carrot to get people to go to Encore? It's just tiring that the good wages are always 'just around the corner' in aviation, but you wait many years, to see the corner moving farther away all the time..

Where did I mention anything about encore and flow?

[JSYK]

guys the Min flow is 25% MIN. The flow will increase once Encore gets a bit bigger, and a few more people are there. Just remember this is the only regional in North America with guaranteed flow and one list. Things will get better,

Guaranteed by who?

[petey]

It's aviation. I guarantee there are no guarantees.

[twinpratts]

It's been said here before, that there is 100% flow through for EVERYBODY at Encore. The 25% is simply that on any given course, there will be a min of 25% of the candidates coming from Encore. In the future, all the candidates will come up from Encore, they just have to give the company a chance to get established first. Is there any other airline in Canada, (or even the US) that guarantees (as long as you are an employee in good standing) a number for mainline, upgrade, (and later on) widebody based on date of hire at the regional?
Am I off base here, DaveP?

BTW Duster:
The only change I see with certification is that I will no longer be allowed to speak directly with Management when I have an issue... I'll have to go through my 'Rep'. Maybe you think that a Certification would have prevented the move to bases? Or gotten everyone a better move package? I really don't think so. Just talk to any Vancouver based 330 pilot at AC who's position got moved to YUL, and see how much input ACPA had on THAT decision.
As an aside... I've looked at the WPPA website, and Personally, (with exception to maybe one of all the names I recognize on there) these guys are the LAST ones I'd want to represent me with management.

I agree with True North... I can't think of any good coming of any certification scenario.