So You're a Quart Low

[Nark]

The bird I most recently flew lies about the oil level in the sight glass (OH58, same as a Jetranger in his regard). So we have to check that there is actually oil residue on the cap plug. The capacity? No idea, just make sure there is some in there.

In the fancy jet, look at the MFD and the status page, it'll tell me, either in green, yellow or red. Capacity, no idea.

My own bird, around 6 quarts. Do I double check the stick. Can't say I do.

I fly,
Wellllllll, yes the 7.62 is in the 30 cal family, but the 7.62 isn't just a .30 cal. Just like 5.56 isn't just a .223. I get your point. Liters, queens, tea and crumpets....

[iflyforpie]

As soon as I saw you post.... I was like..... Nark's probably correcting me on my ammunition terminology....

Should have used the dimensional lumber example.

That's something about the 1L oil cans too. I would imagine it was because everything is in US Quarts as far as specs go that they were concerned about certain things were getting over serviced.

I do have a Shell oil can (big yellow 1 gal plastic one) calibrated in Imperial quarts..... had to watch that one.....

[frozen solid]

I check it again because I am overly self-congratulatory. I like to give myself a little pat on the back for remembering to check the oil, and when I pull out that dipstick showing the correct quantity for flight, I can't help giving myself a little "thumbs-up" for having the good sense to detect and rectify a low oil situation.

[complexintentions]

Oh where oh where did my oil go?

[AirFrame]

It is also worth checking the jug before pouring it in. At my last job a pilot, in a hurry because he was running late , poured 2 jugs of oil out of the typical black plastic litre container into one engine of the light twin. He had just finished when he realized the two jugs contained 5W30 car oil meant for the shop truck instead of Aeroshell 15W50

Two quarts, out of six or seven total? It would have been fine. Oils do mix.

[CpnCrunch]

Oh where oh where did my oil go?

The same thing happens on your small piston engine. Even in the 150 you'll notice that there is about 1 quart less oil on the dipstick even an hour after flying, versus before flying. It's just some of the oil adhering to the engine components.

[Colonel Sanders]

I would not run even one quart of automobile
oil in an aircraft engine. Burns pits in the tops
of your pistons.

[pelmet]

Oh where oh where did my oil go?

Here's a question for you. Your GE engine was at 19 prior to start and is at 24 after start. Is it OK to carry on or should you shut down and call maintenance.

And why the increase?

[iflyforpie]

It is also worth checking the jug before pouring it in. At my last job a pilot, in a hurry because he was running late , poured 2 jugs of oil out of the typical black plastic litre container into one engine of the light twin. He had just finished when he realized the two jugs contained 5W30 car oil meant for the shop truck instead of Aeroshell 15W50

Two quarts, out of six or seven total? It would have been fine. Oils do mix.

No, they don't. Precautions against mixing mineral and ashless dispersant, and using any kind of synthetic oil in piston engines is FTGU stuff....

In a similar light, I nearly put waste oil back into an engine once. It was a nice five gallon pail that had fairly clean used oil from a winter of almost no flying that we were saving for farm implements.

Now a fluorescent orange spray bomb tag identifies any five gallon pail that has been emptied of new stuff.

[ahramin]

Good question Pelmet. Do not continue, call maintenance.

[Big Pistons Forever]

In a similar light, I nearly put waste oil back into an engine once. It was a nice five gallon pail that had fairly clean used oil from a winter of almost no flying that we were saving for farm implements.

Now a fluorescent orange spray bomb tag identifies any five gallon pail that has been emptied of new stuff.

Same thing happened to me, except for the "nearly" part . My partner in the Nanchang changed the oil in his car ( a Ford ) and looking for something to put the old oil in decided to use one of the empty gal jugs of 25W60 Philips. So I go to fly the plane and notice it needs a few glugs of oil and grab the nearest jug. Just as I am removing the now empty jug I saw the faint black marker note that said "waste" in 1/4 inch high letters.

After draining the almost new oil and and replacing it with 20 litres of new oil ( $150 ) I had a conversation about what was going to be the new protocol for dealing with used oil. The discussion was all transmit on my part and all receive on his.......

As for mixing and matching oil, the only time this is acceptable is mixing a non multi-grade non synthetic detergent oil like 100 W, with a multi-grade non synthetic detergent oil like 25W50

[trey kule]

Somebody is welcome to correct me, but I think if the milspec is approved, you can mix the oils.

That is limiting, but I believe it is possible.

In car oil there is a completely different formulation. They are not compatible at all.

About 25 years ago when shell started selling the aeroshell muti grade there were some real problems. It was to good..damaged the starter gear...Shell quietly revised the formulation.

And lastly, the thread title was totally misleading. It was about aircraft.

[Colonel Sanders]

if the milspec is approved, you can mix the oils

Correct. Sometimes in hot wx for example, when I
want a W110 oil (SAE 55) I will mix 50/50 W100 and
W120, when W100 isn't quite thick enough.

Other times, an engine might have a mixture of 15w50,
W100, W100plus and W120. I fill it up with whatever
is convenient. Runs fine. I tend not to add mineral oil
(break-in oil) is all.

The key is to run an "ashless dispersant" aviation oil
in your engine. Do not run automotive oil in your
aircraft engine, and here's why.

Story time. Decades ago, a friend of mine (he's long
dead, so I can tell this now) decided aviation oil was
too expensive, so he ran car oil in his Lycoming.
Seemed to run ok.

On the way to TBO, he needed a teardown (another
story). Engine shop said, "You've been run car oil
in your engine". My friend, surprised, asked how they
could tell.

Turns out that aviation engines are built looser than
car engines. Much more oil makes it up past the rings,
into the combustion chamber. And when the oil burns,
it leaves carbon deposits that burn pits in the tops of
your pistons.

That's why you want an "ashless" aviation oil.

PS You DO NOT want a full-synthetic oil for your
aircraft engine. I think Mobil-1 was the name of the
full synthetic oil that tried that, maybe 20 years ago.

Worked great in cars. But cars don't run leaded gas
any more, and fully synthetic oil doesn't suspend lead,
and you wouldn't believe the damage it caused, when
all that lead plugged up the oil passages, etc.

Terrible lawsuits. Lost in the mist of time to today's
generation, I am sure, but until we get the lead out
of avgas, you cannot run full synthetic.

[Colonel Sanders]

Executive summary: I would not run even one quart
of automotive oil in one of my engines. One of your
engines, sure, no problem

I am a fanatic about engine cleanliness, inside and
out. The AME's here make fun of me for it, but one
of the regular posters here had a problem where his
constant-speed prop would not hold RPM. Fuel surging.

Pulled his prop governor (Mike Busch's advice) and it
was plugged full of carbon and lead deposits, which
probably didn't help it much.

Again, the Canadian AME's here don't think engine
cleanliness (inside and out) is important, but a lot
of other people disagree with them.

Hell, Canadian AME's think you don't even have to
clean an aircraft to inspect it at annual time - apparently
if the owner doesn't bring it in spotless, it's not going
to happen - even though that's a clear CARs contravention.

At the risk of getting this thread deleted (again) because
of people running to mommy and complaining, this is
what a $30,000 annual inspection looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/aRbqrG4.jpg

No cleaning, no inspection, no lubrication. Good job!

[Pop n Fresh]

I think Mobil-1 was the name of the
full synthetic oil that tried that, maybe 20 years ago.

20? ~counts on fingers~ Holy petroleum replacement.

I would have thought it was only a couple. If I was not laying down I would feel the need to go lay down.

[Colonel Sanders]

http://www.avweb.com/news/news/182891-1 ... directed=1

Mike Busch (I know Canadian AME's don't
think much of him, but) in 1995 he said:

Mobil introduced its 100% synthetic AV-1 piston aircraft engine oil with great ballyhoo in connection with the 1986 round-the-world Voyager flight. It went on the market in 1987

27 years ago it went on the market (1987) and
it was pulled in June 1994, which is 20 years.

[Pop n Fresh]

I believed you after doing the maths. It just seems like yesterday I was at the Calgary flying club looking at a Mobil 1 ad in some flying magazine.

[Shiny Side Up]

Maybe you were. There exists the possibility it was an old magazine.

[Colonel Sanders]

Old magazines are a nice tradition at many
airport lounges. If you poke through the
stack, you can probably find a column written
by Gordon Baxter or Len Morgan or Richard
Collins.

[Pop n Fresh]

I was having insane thoughts yesterday casting lures into the Glenmore reservoir because someone was flying a Cessna over us. I used to be the guy in the airplane once a week back when Mobil 1 was selling that oil.

[Shiny Side Up]

I was having insane thoughts yesterday

Maybe you're a quart low.

[Pop n Fresh]

Probably. I blame the police. They ride bicycles now.

[Shiny Side Up]

I know. I called them like 20 times and they couldn't help you.

[Pop n Fresh]

Now I blame my flight instructor.

[pdw]

An early instructor I had, once told me:

"8 quarts is max, so if you're down to 7 it's best to add one ...

... but 6 is not serious ...

... even 5 is OK ...

... but never take-off with just 4 ...

... unless it's an emergency ...

... then even 2 will still lube enough (for a real/life-threatening emergency) in level attitude level for minimum duration".

I'm not kidding; this left me scarred for life, really. After that (when I was a quart low ... and not figureatively ) I only double check for 8 by dropping the dipstick in briefly to ensure it's not over (just adding the 1/2 inch thread depth to the dipped level) before screwing it back in.