NickyNick wrote:
Urban Legend, 3900 hrs and no call for me. Must be a "who you know" and not "what you know" company.
People are regularly hired with a lot less than 3900; in fact I would say even the average TT is a lot lower than that for EMB new hires. But yes, it has a lot to do with internal references, not to mention quality of experience, resume, etc. They seem to try and hire people they like not just people that look good on paper.
The company I work for, at the time of hiring, called everyone that took the time to ''follow up'' with their application. It was the unwritten law. Again, legend has it that its always good to follow up, on the other hand many companies clearly do not want to be disturbed. I was curious to know what Skyregional's view of calling and following up was. Not much written about this company on Avcan.
People are regularly hired with a lot less than 3900; in fact I would say even the average TT is a lot lower than that for EMB new hires. But yes, it has a lot to do with internal references, not to mention quality of experience, resume, etc. They seem to try and hire people they like not just people that look good on paper.
PROC_HDG[/quote]
That's interesting.
Hard to have internal references when you don't currently work at the company, know anyone or keep in touch with anyone that one has worked with in past. Sad how everyone isn't given an equal opportunity in canada, society will never change for the good.
NickyNick wrote:quote]Hard to have internal references when you don't currently work at the company
No it's not....when you actually get into the workforce for real, you will understand and won't need to have the concept explained to you multiple times.
NickyNick, if you want an internal reference and into these top notch companies, it's best to submit your application and then call and email daily. Make sure you talk to the CP, DFO and even Pres. Doesn't hurt to talk to the accountant daily either as they will be the ones cutting your paycheck, so it's best to get on their good side early.
Also hang around the departure gates and introduce yourself to all the crews as they get to the gate to board their plane. You'll want to make a good impression on them at the gate that they remember you throughout their flight. If the captain is a woman, be sure to have flowers, this helps! Do all this and you'll find yourself hired in no time. This is how many do it, they just don't want you or others to know!
Oh Nicky move on buddy! You've been outed above for the troll you are, but it's entertaining to see the gullible swallow it all. There'll be a few fpr sure. Anyways pal, you had a good showing so run along now. Lmfao.
If you have spent a few years in this industry, chances are you are on good terms with at least 1 or 2 people at pretty well every 705 operator in the country. That is where you get an internal reference.
PROC_HDG wrote:If you have spent a few years in this industry, chances are you are on good terms with at least 1 or 2 people at pretty well every 705 operator in the country. That is where you get an internal reference.
PROC_HDG
You are correct however when people you have worked with move away you no longer stay in touch, I have no clue what their new phone number or email would be. It wouldn't be very appropriate to try to use someone to get ahead. If someone I never talked to in a long time contacted me to be used I'd think it was very inappropriate.
The captains I started with moved on, the first officers I fly with move to captain positions then move on. I'm still in same position for a few years !!!!!!!
NickyNick wrote:
You are correct however when people you have worked with move away you no longer stay in touch, I have no clue what their new phone number or email would be. It wouldn't be very appropriate to try to use someone to get ahead. If someone I never talked to in a long time contacted me to be used I'd think it was very inappropriate.
The captains I started with moved on, the first officers I fly with move to captain positions then move on. I'm still in same position for a few years !!!!!!!
Well perhaps you should have stayed in touch with them!
Everyone around you is moving on and you're still in the same position. Maybe that should be your cue that it is time for a little self-reflection...
NickyNick wrote:
You are correct however when people you have worked with move away you no longer stay in touch, I have no clue what their new phone number or email would be. It wouldn't be very appropriate to try to use someone to get ahead. If someone I never talked to in a long time contacted me to be used I'd think it was very inappropriate.
The captains I started with moved on, the first officers I fly with move to captain positions then move on. I'm still in same position for a few years !!!!!!!
It's called making friends, and helping each other out is what we do in this industry. It's not just your gain or being used, it's mutual gain. I prefer to work with people I know are great to work with. If an old friend called me up for info on the company I work for, and I thought he'd make a good fit, why wouldn't I try to help him out? If someone helps you, you help someone else and you pay it forward.
We're not automatons, we're humans, and relationships are part of life and make the world go around.
I've stayed in touch with almost everyone I've ever worked with, and not a single one has gone to SkyRegional. I simply don't know anyone there, and to have my application rejected, regardless of experience, because I don't have any internal references, hardly seems like good hiring practices. I've seen pilots get passed over by people with half their experience, because the lower-time pilot's parents work for the company. Nepotism is going strong in aviation.
Diadem wrote:I've stayed in touch with almost everyone I've ever worked with, and not a single one has gone to SkyRegional. I simply don't know anyone there, and to have my application rejected, regardless of experience, because I don't have any internal references, hardly seems like good hiring practices. I've seen pilots get passed over by people with half their experience, because the lower-time pilot's parents work for the company. Nepotism is going strong in aviation.
Nepotism is one thing, but I don't see anything wrong with preferentially hiring pilots who have strong internal references. Employers are obviously seeing good things from candidates that were hired based on the recommendation of employees they already know are good. Westjet for ex seems to base their entire hiring scheme on this.
Time and experience are only one part of getting hired. Everything from who you know down to the font on your resume can make a difference. I figured this was common knowledge.
Diadem wrote:I've stayed in touch with almost everyone I've ever worked with, and not a single one has gone to SkyRegional. I simply don't know anyone there, and to have my application rejected, regardless of experience, because I don't have any internal references, hardly seems like good hiring practices. I've seen pilots get passed over by people with half their experience, because the lower-time pilot's parents work for the company. Nepotism is going strong in aviation.
Nepotism is one thing, but I don't see anything wrong with preferentially hiring pilots who have strong internal references. Employers are obviously seeing good things from candidates that were hired based on the recommendation of employees they already know are good. Westjet for ex seems to base their entire hiring scheme on this.
Time and experience are only one part of getting hired. Everything from who you know down to the font on your resume can make a difference. I figured this was common knowledge.
PROC_HDG[/quote]
So how does one without internal references get hired? Experience should count for something.
Sky is hiring so many pilots there, it's not about internal references. They certainly help but are definitely not required. Truth is they would jump at 3900hrs for both the Q and the Embraer so there must be something else going on with your application. If neither Jazz, Encore or Sky Regional haven't even invited you for an interview then the common link would be your cover letter and resume. I would suggest having it reviewed by a professional. Coming across as likeable on paper can be tricky. As you can see here on Avcanada most people have responded that you seem "entitled" on paper...I can't help but agree. Might be worth having a third party look at your resume.
Good luck, I'm sure it'll be worth the effort.
PS: Don't take it personally, people here are simply able to be frank and honest about their perception of you because it's a nameless, faceless website. However I learned a long ago that "perception becomes reality". Might be a chance to change that perception.
References...no References. Hours.....no Hours. This conversation seems to be heading nowhere. It seems we will never know for sure what goes through the recruiters mind when hiring. It's a hit and miss. I'll give an example such as myself:
I got hired a few years ago on a Jet by a very good company. Most of the people that got hired in my class had 1500 hours to 2100 Hours, a lot of Multi-PIC and way more. I was the only one in that class with considerably less than 1000 hours, with no Multi-PIC....or should I say extremely little. All had internal references. I knew no one in the company! I did not win any competition to reach an interview.
I will never know why they picked me. Was it because of my resume and cover letter? Was it because of the diverse experience I had? Was it because of my University diplomas? It is one of the mysteries such as that of the infamous Bermuda triangle or the assassination of JFK that we will never be able to solve. Call it Musky fishing
Maxpwr wrote:Sky is hiring so many pilots there, it's not about internal references. They certainly help but are definitely not required. Truth is they would jump at 3900hrs for both the Q and the Embraer so there must be something else going on with your application. If neither Jazz, Encore or Sky Regional haven't even invited you for an interview then the common link would be your cover letter and resume. I would suggest having it reviewed by a professional. Coming across as likeable on paper can be tricky. As you can see here on Avcanada most people have responded that you seem "entitled" on paper...I can't help but agree. Might be worth having a third party look at your resume.
Good luck, I'm sure it'll be worth the effort.
PS: Don't take it personally, people here are simply able to be frank and honest about their perception of you because it's a nameless, faceless website. However I learned a long ago that "perception becomes reality". Might be a chance to change that perception.
Thankyou. Some call me troll, trolling, 15 year old kid etc. I'm sure not any of those. Sure writing is not my strong asset, physics class over shakespeare any day for me. Why doesn't a company want a true resume done by the applicant instead of one done by someone else? The someone else isn't going to be in the right seat !
The truth my friend is they aren't jumping at guys/gals with 3900 hrs with a lot of BE20 PIC time, I'm an example.
Would BE02 time help me?
A lot of 3000 + hour people getting calls right now at all the regionals/airlines. I'm glad you're saying you're not a troll. And I'm glad you're agreeing to your writing being a weak point. Work on it, so that your presentation in electronic form comes off as desireable. I don't think anyone is really hiding behind anything when they're calling you out on something. As a seasoned 4k pilot, constructive criticism is something you should be good at taking and implementing into further professional development of your career. The "it's the world, and not me" problem is usually an indication that you're the problem.
