No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

[sanjet]

Now add cost of housing or CPI/Basket of goods and overlay it on that chart.

Yup, we lost a lot.

[acpaleaks]

And the boomers will still say "oh 60k that's not bad at all I made less when I started THIRTY YEARS AGO"...

While the wind clearly passes above their head.

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

Do we have a strike preparedness committee like WestJet does? If we do I would say its time we start preparing.

Its time we put our foot down. The only way we get anything back is job action. All the people that have complained past and present need to be willing to put their money where their mouth is.

We need to elect reps that aren't afraid to go against the grain. To speak out against the corp. That work for the members. All I have witnessed so far is a top down, don't like it then leave mentality. I can only take a guess how that kind of leadership would have been handled back in the 60's/70's/80's...

[acpaleaks]

Do we have a strike preparedness committee like WestJet does? If we do I would say its time we start preparing.

A strike committee? Bro what are you smoking. ACPA prepare to strike?

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

These days they aren't prepared to do anything except say YES YES YES to all the company's requests.

[Tbayer2021]

And the boomers will still say "oh 60k that's not bad at all I made less when I started THIRTY YEARS AGO"...

While the wind clearly passes above their head.

I've had this argument multiple times with seniors. I even went as far as showing one of them he wouldn't be approved for a mortgage today with his current salary and at the peak of his career if he had to purchase his current home at its current market value. Even with 20% down.

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

Its a good thing we have a commuting policy so we can afford to live somewhere reasonable... oh wait

I believe it would be in the best interest of the pilot group and the company if the association could negotiate a commuting policy. There will be plenty of people myself included who simply can't afford to live in one of the bases unless I rent my whole life. The pandemic has wiped out any savings and prospects of becoming a home owner let alone in YYZ or YVR. When things start to recover as they already are flights will be oversold again making commuting incredibly difficult.

If such a policy isn't created I have a sneaking suspicion last minute book-offs will become more and more prevalent.

[acpaleaks]

Delta now has pos commuting and I'm sure they are only just the first to go this way. Multiple regionals in the USA pay for multiple hotels a month for commuters. And I think Endeavor already is doing the same pos space as Delta. Add the CASS jumpseater system and it's a whole different world for commuters down there.

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

Are we allowed to compare ourselves to delta though? I thought that was against the rules...lol

[acpaleaks]

Are we allowed to compare ourselves to delta though? I thought that was against the rules...lol

Only if your Jalmer or MM.

How about our regional? Can we compare to them? 2 flight before check in policy, no fault drop if you can't make it.

I've been told the reason we don't have one is for our benefit because right now it's a "grey area" and "managers will work with pilots on a case by case basis"... Sounds like a really stupid reason to me.

[iflyroads]

Its a good thing we have a commuting policy so we can afford to live somewhere reasonable... oh wait

I was told a commuting policy was agreed upon with the company years ago, however acpa base politics got in the way.

Some bases felt that pilots would bid into them to enjoy a better seniority and schedule, thereby "ruining it" for the pilots currently at that base.

Make of it what you will

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Didn't Cargo Jet pilots get 4 confirmed commuting flights per month in their latest CBA?

CargoJet.png (306.65 KiB) Viewed 4389 times

[Tbayer2021]

Didn't Cargo Jet pilots get 4 confirmed commuting flights per month in their latest CBA?

CargoJet.png

My understand is that it was only an LOU for whomever was commuting at that point. New hires don't get that, nor the 100K retention bonus. Mind you retention isn't exactly a problem now.

[rudder]

Re: cost of living

I recall Great Lakes Ltd pilots in the 1980’s regularly going in and buying Cadi’s for cash. Don’t think that is happening much these days.

Re: strike vote

It doesn’t matter who is in power in YOW. AC pilots and AC Express pilots will never be allowed to strike.

Re: ACPA bargaining history

You don’t need to attend an ALPA bargaining seminar. Just learn to say ‘no’.

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

Not allowed to strike?

Anybody is allowed to strike. They just need enough collective unity to say F#@K you to whoever is trying to mandate them back to work. Its called courage, pride, UNITY.

Work to rule. Remember we are the ones that ultimately release the park brake and get things moving. Without us, things fall apart pretty quick.

We need to collectively take a stance in the post pandemic era that we want a bigger piece of the pie. If we don't take a stance now we can all watch our WAWCON and profession be flushed away.

You want to see gains that will bring us closer to inflation adjusted pre CCAA wages? It will never happen at a negotiating table. It'll happen on the picket line.

[rudder]

Not allowed to strike?

Anybody is allowed to strike. They just need enough collective unity to say F#@K you to whoever is trying to mandate them back to work. Its called courage, pride, UNITY.

Work to rule. Remember we are the ones that ultimately release the park brake and get things moving. Without us, things fall apart pretty quick.

We need to collectively take a stance in the post pandemic era that we want a bigger piece of the pie. If we don't take a stance now we can all watch our WAWCON and profession be flushed away.

You want to see gains that will bring us closer to inflation adjusted pre CCAA wages? It will never happen at a negotiating table. It'll happen on the picket line.

I have logged a total of 115 days on picket lines during 3 legal strikes. However, last one was nearly 25 years ago. Times have changed.

The testosterone is there but the political landscape is not.

Bargaining success now comes from thinking strategically. Be proactive not reactive. Make sure that there is solid support for the agenda (not just 51%). Capitalize on opportunity. Take a long term view.

My time in the industry is coming to a close. I hope for the sake of the generations that follow things will improve. But it will take much more intellectual horsepower and resources.

Worst enemy is to become a hostage to ‘group think’. External perspectives are useful in gaming out the potential actions of your counterparty in any negotiation.

[Fanblade]

Not allowed to strike?

Anybody is allowed to strike. They just need enough collective unity to say F#@K you to whoever is trying to mandate them back to work. Its called courage, pride, UNITY.

Work to rule. Remember we are the ones that ultimately release the park brake and get things moving. Without us, things fall apart pretty quick.

We need to collectively take a stance in the post pandemic era that we want a bigger piece of the pie. If we don't take a stance now we can all watch our WAWCON and profession be flushed away.

You want to see gains that will bring us closer to inflation adjusted pre CCAA wages? It will never happen at a negotiating table. It'll happen on the picket line.

I have logged a total of 115 days on picket lines during 3 legal strikes. However, last one was nearly 25 years ago. Times have changed.

The testosterone is there but the political landscape is not.

Bargaining success now comes from thinking strategically. Be proactive not reactive. Make sure that there is solid support for the agenda (not just 51%). Capitalize on opportunity. Take a long term view.

My time in the industry is coming to a close. I hope for the sake of the generations that follow things will improve. But it will take much more intellectual horsepower and resources.

Worst enemy is to become a hostage to ‘group think’. External perspectives are useful in gaming out the potential actions of your counterparty in any negotiation.

Rudder for ACPA CEO. But then take us to ALPA

[Stu Pidasso]

Funny how my least favorite people on earth, CBSA, are able to "work to rule" but as Pilots we didn't have the stomach to even try. ACPA is scared of its own shadow.

We have 100 times more stroke than Custom Clowns and never use it.

[Sharklasers]

Sorry, we don’t have as much stroke as a union of the federal government under the most limp dicked prime minister our country has ever seen leading up to an election. Even if JT had the balls to play hardball (he doesn’t) he couldn’t take the optics of it leading up to his majority election. Throw in the fact that this federal government has lost all respect for money and you get this, why does he care about caving 1 day into Job action? It’s not his money anyway that’s going to be paying.

[goldeneagle]

We have 100 times more stroke than Custom Clowns and never use it.

Actually, you dont, but dont let that fact get in the way of your delusions of grandeur. Your pilot group can affect exactly one airline, the CBSA folks can skewer all the airlines at the same time.

And before you folks get to loud preaching about how smart the CBSA folks were going into a work to rule campaign, and how quick it settled, you really should take a look at the settlement numbers. 2% over 4 years amounts to half a percent a year. Which side was the one doing the caving at that bargaining table ?

[goleafsgo]

There are pros and cons to paying all pilots at a company the same (captains are payed more of course) regardless of which aircraft they fly (status pay).

It sounds fair paying everyone the same (everyone is doing a similar job), but I don't think status pay is a good idea because of this:

If pilots are payed more for flying larger aircraft, most senior pilots gravitate to the larger aircraft.
This give the opportunity for the more junior pilot to to trade pay for schedule. He can stay on the smaller aircraft and get payed less but have a better schedule.



.

Would one rate for narrowbodies and one rate for widebodies work? Like really what’s the difference between a 220 or a 320 or a 330 and a 787?

[rudder]

There are pros and cons to paying all pilots at a company the same (captains are payed more of course) regardless of which aircraft they fly (status pay).

It sounds fair paying everyone the same (everyone is doing a similar job), but I don't think status pay is a good idea because of this:

If pilots are payed more for flying larger aircraft, most senior pilots gravitate to the larger aircraft.
This give the opportunity for the more junior pilot to to trade pay for schedule. He can stay on the smaller aircraft and get payed less but have a better schedule.



.

Would one rate for narrowbodies and one rate for widebodies work? Like really what’s the difference between a 220 or a 320 or a 330 and a 787?

When HC was VP FLT OPS I believe this was discussed internally but I don’t think it ever made it to a bargaining table discussion.

My understanding is that generally the majority of AC pilots support maximum opportunities to have increased seniority on a roster and any form of status pay would diminish those opportunities.

If AC were willing to pay all WB @ 777 rates and all NB @ 321 rates then perhaps it might be worth examining. I doubt that offer would be forthcoming.

[airway]

There are pros and cons to paying all pilots at a company the same (captains are payed more of course) regardless of which aircraft they fly (status pay).

It sounds fair paying everyone the same (everyone is doing a similar job), but I don't think status pay is a good idea because of this:

If pilots are payed more for flying larger aircraft, most senior pilots gravitate to the larger aircraft.
This give the opportunity for the more junior pilot to to trade pay for schedule. He can stay on the smaller aircraft and get payed less but have a better schedule.



.

Would one rate for narrowbodies and one rate for widebodies work? Like really what’s the difference between a 220 or a 320 or a 330 and a 787?

That's what Fedex does.




.

[altiplano]

When HC was VP FLT OPS I believe this was discussed internally but I don’t think it ever made it to a bargaining table discussion.

My understanding is that generally the majority of AC pilots support maximum opportunities to have increased seniority on a roster and any form of status pay would diminish those opportunities.

If AC were willing to pay all WB @ 777 rates and all NB @ 321 rates then perhaps it might be worth examining. I doubt that offer would be forthcoming.

It was discussed more recently than that.

ACPA said they weren't supportive of it, but couldn't say no if it was for top rate 777 / 320 pay WB / NB in the groups. The company wanted a blended scale. I heard though that the cost projection shows the amount saved by the company on lost productivity and training more than pay for moving all positions to the top scale.

As usual company wants to keep their cake and eat it too...

[JcPd_flyer]

Not allowed to strike?

Anybody is allowed to strike. They just need enough collective unity to say F#@K you to whoever is trying to mandate them back to work. Its called courage, pride, UNITY.

Work to rule. Remember we are the ones that ultimately release the park brake and get things moving. Without us, things fall apart pretty quick.

We need to collectively take a stance in the post pandemic era that we want a bigger piece of the pie. If we don't take a stance now we can all watch our WAWCON and profession be flushed away.

You want to see gains that will bring us closer to inflation adjusted pre CCAA wages? It will never happen at a negotiating table. It'll happen on the picket line.

I hate saying this but I have a feeling that if this industry is going to change in this country, it's going to take either a strike or a terrible terrible accident blaming pilot fatigue and/or inexperience, backed up by the public fear. And I'd rather it to be a strike. Again, hate to bring it up but I thought SFO "incident" was going to change something but here we still are, getting a call at 9am for a red eye from a base that we can't even afford to live in with the flat pay, while pilots in the US get paid 30% more crossing the Atlantic with 3 crew. Something gotta change