TC sends Collection Agency after me

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flyinthebug
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Post by flyinthebug »

Snoopy.. I respect your opinion but your motives seem to be (assumption here) somewhat politically motivated in this particular regard and frankly I disagree with you that we should not bombard our reps whether they are working towards a resolve or not. This would only give them more ammunition for their quest.

If they are indeed working towards resolve and for the greater good of the industry, then a few hundred emails from concerned and licenced pilots to a select group cant hurt what they are attempting to do and certainly wont side track or distract them.

Its my 2 cents that we should continue an email assault on the powers that be.

Let the debate begin while I go send another email ;)

Fly safe all
Cheers

Edit for PS.. Snoopy I just re read your post and I am all for organizing things on this issue and in an attempt to assist the quest for justice folks that are working so hard. My point to reiterate is that a few hundred loosely organized emails from PROFESSIONALS should not and will not distract the upper level TC management in their efforts and again, may well assist them. I wanted to be clear that I agree in the organized approach however this loosely organized "petition" will at least get some consideration.
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Guido
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Post by Guido »

Response from Kevin Psutka at COPA:
Thanks for sending this <Guido>. COPA has tried to abolish the fee without
success. Perhaps this time someone will listen. Please copy me on any
response you may receive.

Kevin Psutka
President and CEO
Canadian Owners and Pilots Association
207-75 Albert St
Ottawa, ON
K1P 5E7
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snoopy
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Post by snoopy »

Oh heck, I just couldn't resist.

flyinthebug, if it's political to suggest 62,000+ pilots work together in a well-planned, concentrated approach against bureaucracy versus a scattered approach from a few disgruntled pilots, well, guilty.

Let's just drag out the old calculator and crunch a few numbers, shall we?

62,775 total medicals done at least annually (private, commercial, ATP and valid medicals with no associated license or permit) equates to $3,452,625 in annual revenue.

Now lets take a look at the over 40 population. BTW you can check the age statistics yourself here: http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... 06_pg2.htm

40+
Aeroplane, Commercial: 3428 (42% of total Commercial population)
Aeroplane, ATP: 7156 (63% of total ATP population)
Helicopter, Commercial: 1500 (51% of total Commercial population)
Helicopter, ATP: 658 (78% of total ATP population)
Total: 12,742

So these additional 12,742 pilots over 40, requiring a second medical for their Class 1 equate to a further $700,810 in additional annual revenue.

There are no age statistics posted for the 11,359 medicals with no accompanying license or permit, nor do we know if they are Class 1 or 3, so there could potentially be more.

However, based on what we know, the government rakes in:
$4,153,435
annually via the seemingly innocent $55 medical fee.

So do you honestly think the government is going to give up those kinds of numbers based on a few sporadic emails? I think not (just my politically motivated opinion of course). But you can be damn sure if 62,000 people came knocking on their door they would be listening.

It's along the same lines as Quest for Justice. As long as only a few people continue to protest individually, and without direction, few changes will be made. However, if 62,000+ people could find a way to work together....

Cheers,
Snoopy
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Post by avcanada »

snoopy wrote: However, if 62,000+ people could find a way to work together....

Cheers,
Snoopy
Wouldn't that be great.
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Doc
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Post by Doc »

Got my income tax refund today. They clipped me for the TC pilot fees right off my tax refund....AND....they've sent me the collection agency notice. I tell ya...I want a NAME!!
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Post by Cat Driver »

" snoopy wrote:
However, if 62,000+ people could find a way to work together....

Cheers,
Snoopy
Snoop, I would love to have one of these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNuW6Bfx840

All we need is about fifty cents from each of those people and it's mine.

Can you arrange that? :smt043
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Post by The Mole »

I ask the nasty lady at collection agency if i could pay in cash, in person. I agreed that i could meet her in alley, and settly this dept in person. Apparently legal tender is no longer accepted in this country. hmm
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trey kule
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Post by trey kule »

for anyone that was wrongfully contacted by the collection agency please see my new thread on the reply from the minister's office
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Guido
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Post by Guido »

Hey guys! I just received a reply from the director of civil aviation at TC - Merlin Preuss hisself!
Thank you for your recent correspondence to the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities,
regarding the payment of costs associated with maintaining a pilot licence. The Minister has asked me to reply on his behalf.

Minister Cannon appreciates receiving your comments and has noted your concerns. I should note that the medical certificate fee,
previously known as the recurring pilot fee, came into effect on August 1, 1995, after consultation with representatives of
aviation associations, such as the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association. The fee applies each time a pilot passes the required
medical assessment for renewal of his or her pilot licence. Medical assessments are required every six months or every one, two or
five years, depending on the pilot's age and the type of licence held. The fee was developed based on a careful review of all
aviation costs, and it recovers only a portion of the total cost of services provided to pilots. In July 2000, Transport Canada
increased the validity periods for private pilots and simplified the associated processing fees.

I should explain that the fee recovers part of the costs of processing medical certificates and producing aeronautical
information. The remaining costs of providing these services to pilots continue to be subsidized by Canadian taxpayers. Please
note that after a change in user fee policy and when the fee was simplified in July 2000, the fee no longer subsidized costs for
the old Aeronautical Information Publication and does not subsidize the new Aeronautical Information Manual. I should also note
that doctor's fees are not included in the Transport Canada fee.
If you require additional information regarding these fees, please feel free to contact Mr. Robert Sincennes, Director, Quality and
Resource Management, Civil Aviation, at the following address:
Place de Ville, Tower C, 5th Floor
330 Sparks Street
Ottawa ON KlA 0N8

I would also invite you to visit the Civil Aviation website at the following address:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/menu.htm <http>

The process followed by Transport Canada in requesting payment of the charge for processing a medical certificate and producing
aeronautical information is to forward an invoice to the pilot for the payment due. A statement of the status of the account
normally follows this invoice. If no payment is forwarded in a timely fashion, a letter is sent from the Canada Revenue Agency.
However, it should be noted that Canada Revenue Agency is simply acting as an agent in the collection of outstanding fees as they
do for government departments that have accounts in arrears. While Canada Revenue Agency does collect personal income tax, they are
collecting overdue fees for Transport Canada. The collection of fees in this way does not constitute a tax though it is collected
by a department that collects taxes.

Since February of 2006, all outstanding invoices and statements are sent to Collectcorp Inc. This was in response to a problem in
the collection of outstanding fees by using the Canada Revenue Agency only. Often monies are already owing to the Canadian Revenue
Agency on personal income taxes and as a result a set off and subsequent collection is not possible by the Canada Revenue
Agency.

Any accounts that have gone to the collection agency that are not in arrears require research by Transport Canada and we have been
looking into these inquiries.

We hope that the above information helps your understanding of the problems in collection of the fees that have necessitated using
a collection agency.

Yours sincerely,



Merlin Preuss
Director General, Civil Aviation
Transport Canada

So - the fee /does/ go towards paying for services we use. Why doesn't it say so on the invoice?
I was never contacted by the CRA about non-payment... were you?
So... if this user fee isn't optional... but it's not a tax... what is it?
Gimme ammo, gents - I want to make a decent reply!
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Post by Cat Driver »

" Mr. Robert Sincennes, Director, Quality and
Resource Management, Civil Aviation, at the following address:
Place de Ville, Tower C, 5th Floor
330 Sparks Street
Ottawa ON KlA 0N8
"
Oh, Dear God in heaven:

After over a year of being screwed around by good old Robert Sincennes and his boss Merlin Preuss I have to roll over on the floor and laugh if anyone out there take these two serious and think they will act in your behalf.

But, hey fill your boots and contact Robert you will at least have someone to write to...you won't get any satisfaction but you will get to wonder how the system ever got so corrupted.
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lilfssister
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Post by lilfssister »

Guido wrote:
I should explain that the fee recovers part of the costs of processing medical certificates and producing aeronautical
information. The remaining costs of providing these services to pilots continue to be subsidized by Canadian taxpayers. Please
note that after a change in user fee policy and when the fee was simplified in July 2000, the fee no longer subsidized costs for
the old Aeronautical Information Publication and does not subsidize the new Aeronautical Information Manual.
So, since NAVCANADA now produces all the aeronautical information except the AIM....and it does not subsidze the AIM...what aeronautical publications does it subsidize???
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
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CD
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Post by CD »

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Post by Justwannafly »

CD wrote:Some of these?

Civil Aviation Publications
Well I have to pay for that AIM & the other pubs on that link I don't get unless I buy a copy of AIM. I thought they were suposed to keep sending out the safety letters...but I havn't gotten them since the AIP updates stoped

so....what am I paying for again?
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Post by Guido »

Some advice for folks who are being harassed by the credit agency besides trey kules good advice to tell them to piss off or take you to court - keep an eye on your credit report by keeping in touch with equifax and transunion, Canada's two major credit agencies. You can order a copy of your credit report from equifax for free over the phone with your SIN number and a credit card number at 1-800-465-7166. TransUnion isn't as cooperative, you have to fax them or mail them a form to get a paper copy, but they'll tell you if you have any accounts in arrears over the phone with your SIN and some address information - 1-800-663-9980.

Info from : http://www.equifax.com/EFX_Canada/consu ... html#ques5
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questions

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...
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lazyboy
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by lazyboy »

Wouldn't it be easier just to pay it when due,I need a medical twice a year.Sure I complain about it,but no way can you win
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by Cat Driver »

Wouldn't it be easier just to pay it when due,I need a medical twice a year.Sure I complain about it,but no way can you win
They love people like you.
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trey kule
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by trey kule »

Drat Cat...you took the words right out of my mouth, so to speak.

Not only is do they love you on this issue, but look at all the other things they can love you for.....people (sheep) who just pay and pay are perfect to believe in "user" fees, will their tax money disappears, Likeswise with airports charging landing fees, ...because TC doe not give them enough money

last time I was in Northern Canada, places like Ft St John had the most magnificant terminals, and all the other municipalities were rushing to better them....as as result of fees.....but heck..its just easier to pay them then do something about it.
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Cat Driver
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by Cat Driver »

Not only is do they love you on this issue, but look at all the other things they can love you for.....people (sheep) who just pay and pay are perfect to believe in "user" fees
It is all about mind control Trey K., social engineer them from the cradle to the robot stage when they can be used and you have mindless compliance.

The ultimate example is the culture who brain wash the masses to strap explosives around their bodies and blow themselves up by the thousands....

....yup TC loves well trained robots.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Doc
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by Doc »

lazyboy....hell yes, it'd be easier! But where's the fun in that? Plus, we have the simple fact, we get nothing for our money. It's nothing more than a money grab, just one more tax. And for what? A stinking "Safety Letter" so some mornic door knob can bitch and complain about seeing a pilot doing a walk around while having coffee???? If that's worth 55$ a year....for some of us, 110$ a year(a blatent example of age discrimination!!), you are in dire need for another oulet for entertainment. Factor into it, a government agency is selling our addresses to a private firm, for and by maggots, and you are just scratching the surface! DO NOT PAY THIS UNFAIR TAX!!!!
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Post by ASL »

Doc wrote:A stinking "Safety Letter" so some mornic door knob can bitch and complain about seeing a pilot doing a walk around while having coffee???? If that's worth 55$ a year....for some of us, 110$ a year(a blatent example of age discrimination!!), you are in dire need for another oulet for entertainment.
Dear Doc, I can help. If you wish to no longer receive the ASL, send me your name, address and licence number at marqupj@tc.gc.ca and I will remove you from future ASL mailings. (N.B. : this will not affect the licensing fee by the way)

Cheers,

Paul M, Editor, ASL
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by CP »

A stinking "Safety Letter" so some mornic door knob can bitch and complain about seeing a pilot doing a walk around while having coffee????
Doc. Thats exactly what I thought when I read that article. What a moron is right! :roll:
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by Cat Driver »

Paul M, Editor, ASL
Welcome to Avcanada Paul.

We sincerely hope that reading what the people who work in aviation and those who make aviation their hobby will give you some outsight ( Opposite to insight ) as to how we feel about the stuff that is churned out by the ton from the cubicles in Ottawa.

Every once in a while we learn something new from our masters in Ottawa, your offer to Doc is something new as it never occurred to me to ask to be taken off the mailing list for the Aviation Safety Letter, that would actually be doing something to help save the planet by cutting down on our use of resources so you might be on to something with that suggestion.

Anyhow what did you think about that expert who wrote the article about not drinking coffee on the walk around because I for one would like to hear your opinion on that subject.

P.S. :

Even if every person outside of TCCA asked to be taken off the list you could still print the thing and instead of using the mail system to distribute it you guys could hand deliver them to all your colleagues. :mrgreen:


Just be careful carrying your coffee. :smt040
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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by Cat Driver »

Quote:
Compliance and Enforcement

Charges payable under these Regulations will be recovered through the Department’s current administrative collection procedures. Collection of outstanding debts due the Crown may, through the provisions set out in sections 4.4 and 4.5 of the Aeronautics Act, be recovered in any court of competent jurisdiction.


I suppose that one would have to dig into the history behind those "administrative collection procedures" to really determine where that all comes from... :?:

Perhaps LH can have his lawyers articling students sink their teeth into that one... :wink:
It was this bit that I was trying to find the answer to, I was going to wait and see if they brought me to court to try and collect.......

.....but alas the tax system fu.ked that idea up and I finally filed a tax return where they owed me money.....so someone else will have to step in and take my place. :prayer:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


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Re: TC sends Collection Agency after me

Post by rigpiggy »

Dear Doc, I can help. If you wish to no longer receive the ASL, send me your name, address and licence number at marqupj@tc.gc.ca and I will remove you from future ASL mailings. (N.B. : this will not affect the licensing fee by the way)

Cheers,

Paul M, Editor, ASL[/quote]


So Paul how many people took you up on your offer?
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