U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

[sportingrifle]

The Mayday call is probably overkill within North America but is still a very valuable tool when flying in countries with marginal english language abilities.

For years, the standard drill at "Big Red" was to "Declare and emergency and request the trucks." One day a 767 blew up an engine and rejected a take off in China. They advised the tower controller and declared an emergency. The controller acknowledged with a "Roger" and cleared an aircraft holding in position behind them to take off. Luckily the crew of the second aircraft had the big picture and remained in position. Ever since then, we are trained to use the melodramitic "Mayday" call to ensure that the controllers and everyone else on the frequency clearly understands that something big is going down.

You feel like a bit of a drama queen in Calgary but better safe than sorry. Something to think about anyway.

Cheers , sportingrifle.

[lilfssister]

The one "mayday" I have received was probably due to a busy frequency. It certainly got everyone's attention, as not a word was heard from anybody except the guy with the mayday until I got info as to where they were and what the problem was, asked a local aircraft to go find the aircraft in distress, and then went back to the other aircraft I had been dealing with. As others have said, if you say you are in some kind of distress, it certainly will let ATS know you have a problem. The "mayday" call alerts others on the frequency, who may not be listening to calls not directed to them, that if they are able they should STFU?

[swordfish]

Has anyone noticed the confusion about the flight number? Small point, but you'd think everyone would be on the same page during an emergency...

Sully calls himself 1539; ATC responds 1529; and the media reports it as 1549.

[crazy_aviator]

Im calling the flight # 1519 and im thinking there is no need for a mayday, he didnt need to have traffic cleared for other airports AND the runway he used was clear and free ! A mayday didnt alert the ferries or the water department for the rescue either. Perhaps Sully didnt inform the pax of the wet runway due to too many pax donning and operating their life vests IN the cabin on other flight emergencies ! However, i have an issue with the pilot not receiving permission to land ,,,You would have thought the controller would have said " Cactus 1569, your # 1 for the hudson, cleared to splash !!"

[N2]

Ok haven't they milked this story long enough.

[yfly]

It's a great story with an excellent outcome. For an industry that is constantly being bashed, the "milking" of a good story is fine by me.

[Rockie]

Cat I was supporting the absurdity of the phrase "mayday".

There was another thread a while back where some folks swore up and down that was the phrase to use - I didn't agree then and still don't. You are correct - don't need to say "mayday" to convey the message - radios have come aways since the radio range days.

Absurd? I don't think so.

In many, many parts of the world the words Mayday and PanPan are the only way you will get the message across that you have a problem. Unless you say the words you are just another foreign airplane speaking a strange language to them.

In North America when you start a transmission with those words on a busy frequency, then you instantly have everyone's undivided attention and you won't have to repeat what you say next. Hardly absurd.

[cgzro]

I've never had to use the MayDay words on the radiio but have called Pan/Pan twice and I can attest its highly effective. (Isn't MayDay really M'aider - help me in French, and I guess Pan/Pan is 'broken down' as in 'en panne' in French.. guess the French had more problems and got to invent the terms

I used Pan/Pan once when I had an engine fail in a spin at a contest and the other pilots in the circuit immediately cleared away for me to land (engine started up again most annoyingly as soon as I was over the numbers). I used it once when I had a control failure and the controller ordered up 'equipement' for me on the runway, which I quickly cancelled after an uneventual landing.

I guess one of the reasons the outcome on the Hudson was so good was a very quick assessement of the situation and minimal yacking with controllers that could not help.

[No_Delay]

I can attest that 'Mayday Mayday' will not only get your undivided attention as an air traffic controller, It will also quiet the entire 18 aircraft on frequency when it is busy. This happened to me - a plane experiencing decompression made the call.. Very quickly the reports of light chop come to and end.

[AuxBatOn]

Question for the ATC types, do you make a distinction between "Mayday", "Pan Pan" and "Declaring and emergency"?

[cyxe]

I used Pan/Pan once when I had an engine fail in a spin at a contest and the other pilots in the circuit immediately cleared away for me to land (engine started up again most annoyingly as soon as I was over the numbers). I used it once when I had a control failure and the controller ordered up 'equipement' for me on the runway, which I quickly cancelled after an uneventual landing.

Holy smokes - I wonder what it takes for you to call a mayday

[metal]

60 Minutes interview is up on youtube already, heres part one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e88PN6V64gk

Just follow the links to the other parts in the "More From" column.

[OntheNumbers]

Has anyone noticed the confusion about the flight number? Small point, but you'd think everyone would be on the same page during an emergency...

Sully calls himself 1539; ATC responds 1529; and the media reports it as 1549.

Yeah, I noticed that immediately. And I'm surprised at the seemingly casual attitude the ATC guys have in that audio - unless maybe it got more frantic after the clip ended. What does it take to get a reaction from these guys? The resulting pubilicity this story got is completely the opposite.

[scrambled_legs]

Don't take the casual tone as a lack of caring.

It'd be interesting to know what the actual flight number was

[MrWings]

In the 60 Minutes interview, I was most surprised with the flight attendant that claimed that one of the passengers fought past her and opened the rear door.

The aircraft then began filling with water because the door was opened and couldn't be closed. That passenger should be ashamed for risking the lives of others. I guess that what happens to some in a panic situation.

The pilots did a great job in keeping their cool and getting that plane down. But a huge factor in the survival of ALL the passengers was the passengers themselves. They were quick, orderly and respectful of each other and followed the FA's instructions.

[bushwhacker]

Subject: Fw: Another view on Airbus #1549


>
>
> INTERESTING NOTE FROM BILL YARBER:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This make more sense to me. Simultaneous engine loss from birds was a
> little difficult for me to believe.
>
> A different slant on 1549, and likely the closest to the truth.
>
>
> An opinion about the A320 from one unidentified pilot!
>
> I didn't know Sully the A320 pilot who landed in the Hudson River . I've
> seen him in the crew room and around the system but never met him. He
> was former PSA and I was former Piedmont and we never had the occasion to
> fly together.
>
> The dumb shit press just won't leave this alone. Most airliner ditchings
> aren't very successful since they take place on the open ocean with wind,
> rough seas, swells and rescue boats are hours or days away. This one
> happened in fresh smooth water, landing with the current and the rescue
> boats were there picking people up while they were still climbing out of
> the airplane. It also happened on a cold winter day when all the
> pleasure boats were parked. Had this happened in July it would be pretty
> hard not to whack a couple of little boats. Sully did a nice job but so
> would 95% of the other pilots in the industry. You would have done a
> nice job.
>
> Don't be surprised if the Airbus fly by wire computers didn't put a
> perfectly good airplane in the water. In a older generation airplane
> like the 727 or 737 300/400 the throttles are hooked to the fuel
> controllers on the engine by a steel throttle cable just like a TBM or a
> Comanche. On the Airbus nothing in the cockpit is real. Everything is
> electronic. The throttles, rudder and brake pedals and the side stick
> are hooked to rheostats who talk to a computer who talks to a electric
> hydraulic servo valve which in turn hopefully moves something.
>
> In a older generation airplane when you hit birds the engines keep
> screaming or they blow up but they don't both roll back to idle
> simultaneously like happened to Flt. 1549. All it would take is for bird
> guts to plug a pressure sensor or knock the pitot probe off or plug it
> and the computers would roll the engines back to idle thinking they were
> over boosting because the computers were getting bad data. The Airbus
> is a real pile of shit. I don't like riding on them. Google Airbus A320
> Crash at the Paris Airshow in 1998. Watch the video of an airbus A320
> crash into a forest because the computers wouldn't allow a power increase
> following a low pass. The computers wouldn't allow a power increase
> because they determined that the airspeed was too low for the increase
> requested so the computers didn't give them any. Pushing the throttles
> forward in a Airbus do es nothing more than request a power increase from
> the computer. If the computer doesn't like all the airplane and engine
> parameters you don't get a power increase. Airbus blamed the dead crew
> since they couldn't defend themselves. A Boeing would still be flying.

[Mitch Cronin]

I wondered how long it would take for that piece of ____ to show up here... News flash: Boeing uses FADEC and FBW systems also.

[bushwhacker]

Mitch,

If that piece of s--t has been floating around, why has no posted it ?
It seems like some sense could be made out it.

[flyinthebug]

Another *newsflash* I found interesting about this guys rant.. Is he calls power levers..THROTTLES?? When was the last time you saw a "throttle" on a turbine and/or jet engine?? Did he really call them throttles?

Fly safe all.

[AuxBatOn]

Another *newsflash* I found interesting about this guys rant.. Is he calls power levers..THROTTLES?? When was the last time you saw a "throttle" on a turbine and/or jet engine?? Did he really call them throttles?

In our manuals we call it Throttle.

[flyinthebug]

Thanks AuxBatOn. I was quite surprised to see him calling them "throttles".. Ive never flown anything bigger then a B1900 and one boss of mine FLIPS if you call them "throttles" on a King Air or whatever small twin turbine. Thanks again for the education.

Fly safe all.

[BTD]

Subject: Fw: Another view on Airbus #1549


>
>
> INTERESTING NOTE FROM BILL YARBER:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This make more sense to me. Simultaneous engine loss from birds was a
> little difficult for me to believe.
>
> A different slant on 1549, and likely the closest to the truth.
>
>
> An opinion about the A320 from one unidentified pilot!
>
> I didn't know Sully the A320 pilot who landed in the Hudson River . I've
> seen him in the crew room and around the system but never met him. He
> was former PSA and I was former Piedmont and we never had the occasion to
> fly together.
>
> The dumb shit press just won't leave this alone. Most airliner ditchings
> aren't very successful since they take place on the open ocean with wind,
> rough seas, swells and rescue boats are hours or days away. This one
> happened in fresh smooth water, landing with the current and the rescue
> boats were there picking people up while they were still climbing out of
> the airplane. It also happened on a cold winter day when all the
> pleasure boats were parked. Had this happened in July it would be pretty
> hard not to whack a couple of little boats. Sully did a nice job but so
> would 95% of the other pilots in the industry. You would have done a
> nice job.
>
> Don't be surprised if the Airbus fly by wire computers didn't put a
> perfectly good airplane in the water. In a older generation airplane
> like the 727 or 737 300/400 the throttles are hooked to the fuel
> controllers on the engine by a steel throttle cable just like a TBM or a
> Comanche. On the Airbus nothing in the cockpit is real. Everything is
> electronic. The throttles, rudder and brake pedals and the side stick
> are hooked to rheostats who talk to a computer who talks to a electric
> hydraulic servo valve which in turn hopefully moves something.
>
> In a older generation airplane when you hit birds the engines keep
> screaming or they blow up but they don't both roll back to idle
> simultaneously like happened to Flt. 1549. All it would take is for bird
> guts to plug a pressure sensor or knock the pitot probe off or plug it
> and the computers would roll the engines back to idle thinking they were
> over boosting because the computers were getting bad data. The Airbus
> is a real pile of shit. I don't like riding on them. Google Airbus A320
> Crash at the Paris Airshow in 1998. Watch the video of an airbus A320
> crash into a forest because the computers wouldn't allow a power increase
> following a low pass. The computers wouldn't allow a power increase
> because they determined that the airspeed was too low for the increase
> requested so the computers didn't give them any. Pushing the throttles
> forward in a Airbus do es nothing more than request a power increase from
> the computer. If the computer doesn't like all the airplane and engine
> parameters you don't get a power increase. Airbus blamed the dead crew
> since they couldn't defend themselves. A Boeing would still be flying.

Just a few things to point out about this post. While the spirit of the article may or may not be correct, some of the authors data is incorrect.

The airbus crash was not in 1998 it was 1988. Also the crew did not die. They had a hearing afterwards. Whether the hearing was fair or not, I am not sure. But they had the chance to defend themselves. There were 3 fatalities and over 100+ survivors.

It appears as if the above post was a forward of someone else's. But if these facts aren't correct, what else in the above quote is incorrect.

If you are going to quote an accident to support your claims get all of the facts correct or don't use it.

BTD

[Cat Driver]

If throttle is not a description for the levers that control a jet engine why do they have " autothrottle. "?

[swordfish]

In an Airbus, it's autothrust, and they are thrust levers.

[Cat Driver]

True.

And they also have three laws, and real neat multi colored displays.