Mandatory Retirement Repeal Passes 2nd Reading in Parliament

[vic777]

...and the beat goes on.

And those who do FlyPast60 owe their good fortune to George Vilven, Neil Kelly, Ray Hall and the rest ....

(There definitely are more than a few, who when we see them on the Flight Deck at 60 plus, will provide us with a few laughs)

[Stu Pidasso]

Completely agreed, with one caveat. What happens when the pension freight train arrives in 2014? That may well force guys to stay.

In that case staying past 60 may not be a choice. Much like our friends to the south who watched the Company Execs STEAL their savings.

I would define "Good Fortune" as a happy healthy retirement at 60 - or better yet - earlier.

[Raymond Hall]

No one is coming back!

[Rockie]

The issue now is to finally deal with reality; ACPA, Air Canada, and the Pilots have to move on.

If I was a betting man and had to establish odds between the aforementionned and the chances of an icecube in Hell, I would put the odds at 50/50

More like 95/5 against. They're still talking about protecting ALL the members rights by continuing the fight to force them to retire, and so far none of them recognize that majority votes DO NOT supercede human rights.

Like bashing your head against a wall.

[Stu Pidasso]

Sorry Ray, I just do not see it happening.

200 (or so) of the 'liver spotted' (that's a joke) come back and 200 young Pilots with Mortgages and young families get furloughed.

Not likely, the cost is just to high.

[Lost in Saigon]

No one has to get laid off. You could just slow down a little on the massive hiring that is going on right now.

[Raymond Hall]

Sorry Ray, I just do not see it happening.

200 (or so) ... come back and 200 young Pilots with Mortgages and young families get furloughed. Not likely, the cost is just to high.

Well 200 is different than zero. Would you believe a number in between?

I agree with you that by the current number that are before the Tribunal (let's assume that it is 200, even though it is now 152, with another 20 or so referrals from the Commission pending), not all will be returning. One can't--he died waiting for his hearing. The average age of the Thwaites group is now 64.8. Unlikely that all of them will opt to return as F/Os. The average age of the Case #3 group is around 62.0. Some are over 64. By the time the reinstatement order is issued, most will be even older. So, same comment.

But many will return, including many over age 65, according to a survey I recently did of my almost 200 clients. With approximately 125 still retiring per year, there will be no-one displaced by the return of those who do elect to return.

[Norwegianwood]

So, back on track....... Are the Hon. Senators still debating Bill C-13 until adjournment for the Christmas break or have they if fact taken a vote yet?
Seems to me the molasses of Parliament is flowing at it's usual rate.....

[Raymond Hall]

So, back on track....... Are the Hon. Senators still debating Bill C-13 until adjournment for the Christmas break or have they if fact taken a vote yet?

We will know in the morning whether it ended tonight, or whether the pain will be inflicted for one more day. In any event, this is not going to extend into the Christmas break. The government's priority is to close this issue and to move on to the next issue, according to my contacts.

[Rockie]

Even diehard age 60 defenders are starting to realize the need for a plan B if there's even a hint of a possible change. You know...just in case.

The irony is too rich, and the inane absurdity of "thinking about swinging the door a little closed" when the horses have already disappeared over the horizon is too embarrassing to contemplate.

[Raymond Hall]

Are the Hon. Senators still debating Bill C-13 until adjournment for the Christmas break or have they if fact taken a vote yet?

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/Sen/Chamb ... ge=E(1610)

The Hon. the Speaker: Are honourable senators ready for the question?

Hon. Senators: Question!

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Some Hon. Senators: On division.

(Motion agreed to, on division, and bill read third time and passed.)

[Raymond Hall]

As above, the Bill received Third Reading in the Senate yesterday afternoon, at approximately 16:15 Eastern time.

There is no reason why it should not receive Royal Assent this week, meaning that the repeal of the mandatory retirement exemption in the Canadian Human Rights Act will come into force one year hence, on or about December 15, 2012.

Because Air Canada pilots' employment is currently terminated on the first day of the calendar month following which they each respectively acquire the age of 60, those who turn 60 on any day in December, 2012 will not be forced to retire (unless Air Canada is able to sustain the BFOR defence against each specific individual).

By that date, the judicial review of the Tribunal's July, 2010 decision on BFOR should have been heard and decided by the Federal Court. We expect it to go to a hearing in March or April, with a decision rendered not later than four months later, in accordance with Federal Court guidelines that require decisions to be rendered on a timely basis.

[Rockie]

I've been reading the Air Canada pilot's forum.

Individually and as a group we still haven't got a clue.

[Norwegianwood]

Are the Hon. Senators still debating Bill C-13 until adjournment for the Christmas break or have they if fact taken a vote yet?

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/Sen/Chamb ... ge=E(1610)

The Hon. the Speaker: Are honourable senators ready for the question?

Hon. Senators: Question!

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Some Hon. Senators: On division.

(Motion agreed to, on division, and bill read third time and passed.)

Thanks Raymond and

[vic777]

Individually and as a group we still haven't got a clue.

I don't know Rocky, it's a psychological phenomena, we'll have to look it up and find its technical name. I think they all know, they have just let their greedy desires override their inner thoughts and deny the truth even to themselves. There are lots of examples where people presented with the most obvious facts deny reality, it's part of human nature. Plus, if you can band together with those who want to believe the same fairy tales, you can perpetuate insanity for generations. Many of the beliefs of the Major Religions are a prime examples.

[Lost in Saigon]

I've been reading the Air Canada pilot's forum.

Individually and as a group we still haven't got a clue.

EXAMPLE:

..................................................

Example removed. I thought that since the quote was not attributed to any one person, and that anonymity was preserved, there would not be a problem. But it turns out I was wrong, because there is lots of upset people on the source forum.

I apologize for this and it won't happen again.

[Morry Bund]

EXAMPLE:

---------------------------.

Stunning in his lack of awareness. That comment speaks volumes about the amount of accurate information getting through the filters over there.

The only thing more remarkable would be another comment suggesting that they should just ignore the legislative change and continue on as if it never happened.

[MackTheKnife]

I've been reading the Air Canada pilot's forum.

Individually and as a group we still haven't got a clue.

EXAMPLE:

-----------------------------------------------

OMG !!!! Please say your joking!!

Are they STILL that clueless over there ??


MTK

[Disco Stu]

I've been reading the Air Canada pilot's forum.

Individually and as a group we still haven't got a clue.

EXAMPLE:

..................................................

Example removed. I thought that since the quote was not attributed to any one person, and that anonymity was preserved, there would not be a problem. But it turns out I was wrong, because there is lots of upset people on the source forum.

I apologize for this and it won't happen again.

Too late Mike the damage is done.

[vic777]

That idea was suggested on this board many moons ago.

[Rockie]

Tempest in a teapot.

Air Canada pilots should be a lot less worried about completely de-identified words being copied onto another forum, and a lot more worried about what their union is not telling them. No more bromides about how well the legal issues are going and how good the legal counsel is, or copouts like "this is not the time for a newsletter". No more excuses about not getting information when every single person is emminently capable of knowing the facts without ACPA's help. DEMAND full disclosure from ACPA and do not accept platitudes because it fits with what you want to hear. While you willingly got lulled to sleep by ACPA you got run over by a steamroller and you don't even realize it yet.

1. Demand to know exactly what will happen in one year's time.
2. Demand to know how much potential liability we are exposed to.
3. Demand to know how much we've spent fighting this so far.
4. Demand to know the REAL likelihood of the company successfully arguing a BFOR of age 60.
5. Demand to know why we are negotiating a multi-year contract having done absolutely nothing to prepare for the radical change coming next December.
6. Demand to know why ACPA is putting the pilots further at risk by ignoring their legal duty under Canada's Labour Law.


And for Christ's sake WAKE UP!!

[29chev]

Sorry I was asleep did you say something ....

[Rockie]

You still are asleep. It'll be interesting to see your reaction a year from now when reality kicks down your door and frog-marches you out of dreamland.

[sepia]

If it was as abysmally one sided as you fly till you die guys think, it would have been solved YEARS ago. Your failure to acknowledge that there's a possibility that things won't proceed exactly as you plan, makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

How many times have you said the end is immediately upon us? For years and years and years now, the end has been threatened to be coming. Excuse me if your little boy that cried wolf game isn't scaring anyone anymore.

Could retirements stop next December? Sure, it's possible. Could AC win the BFOR case and retirements continue at 60? Certainly it's not impossible to think?

I guess your too busy calling any one that disagrees closed minded (or usually much worse) to see that you're not exactly the icons of non biased judgement you may see yourselves as.

[Lt. Daniel Kaffee]

Hold it there Sepia...don't go confusing facts and logic with the FTYD group....they are too busy with their PR campaign....

Funny how everything is over but the crying according to them.....but they've been saying that for how many years?? And how many cases have they won??

And should the inevitable happen, I look forward to seeing the FTYD proponents and reinstated ACPA members contributing to the fund to pay for the damage award. That'll just eat them up...