Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

[boeingboy]

Great. Now everyone thinks there was a fire????

Not likely. Most of that artcile is simply not true - and all the accidents he mentioned have incorrect facts/thoughts in them. Thats why it's no good.

So a fire starts (and no - not from the nose tires. Not possible) Fire spreads rapidly - period. Yes first thing would be to land as soon as possible - but, your going to contact ATC and tell them you are deviating to xxxx and landing for smoke/fire. Even Swissair had ATC communications till the very end. In fact, I cant think of a single in flight fire where they lost everything and disappeared. (AC, UPS, South African, Nationair, Swissair)

Has anyone actually looked at the waypoints the plane flew too? Hell and gone from the nearest airport. IGARI - VAMPI - GIVAL - IGREX, where it exceeded the radar range. The FMC was programed, the autiopilot flew it - a lot going on for a long time if there was a fire. Flying high, diving fast to put out the fire - someones been watching too many movies.

[cncpc]

There seems to be a pretty reliable sighting at about 8:15 Malaysian time March 8th of a low flying white and red jet airliner at a place called Kuda Huvadoo in Dhall Atoll. Coming from north to southwest towards Gan, with an international airport about 220 miles south, 8700 foot runway. Another 500 miles to Diego Garcia.

[Mr. North]

If there was a fire maybe it developed so fast that there was no time to communicate with ATC before the pilots were incapacitated.

How much time does an oxygen mask and smoke hood afford you?

[trey kule]

As I understand it, the pilot had normal communications after the equipment stopped working,
Kind of rules out the whole fire idea if that was correct. Hard to understand why ATC did not notice or take action. Or maybe they did notice and did nothing. Some of these countries are not staffed by A team people. Not something I would think they would make public if they did notice it and did nothing.

[HHI]

..... SPOT does NOT work in an airliner at altitudes above FL190.

In the context of this flight, Had there been service in the area and at least one spot in the airplane and turned on, It would have to get lower than FL190 at some point..

Unless this 777 is still stuck in the air...

Last words on SPOT in this bit of thread drift. The SPOT unit has to be able to "see" the satellite to report or track. Would have to have been held up to a passenger window at the correct bank angle or angle from the satellite.

SPOT effective usage in any passenger seat in an airliner highly unlikely.

It was not received by the satellite while positioned against the side cockpit window while airborne in my B777 cockpit a couple of years ago.

Works extremely well in my light aircraft.

Sorry for the thread drift, but I hope this will end speculation on a "what if...." about a SPOT tracking unit.

HHI

[B52]

The theories get more bizarre by the day.
What I'm noticing is, a suspicion or double or quadruple hearsay of a dubiously qualified
opinion becomes fact.

Facts claimed are quoted without providing the source.
It's like a bunch of drunks repeating a story around a bar
and then publishing it as fact.

The press seem to be looking for the most bizarre story that they
can think of and running with it. It appears that Malaysian Airlines
modify their story to suit what the press, public and relatives want.

I've heard people say Michael Mckay's observation was discredited.
That appears to be hearsay upon hearsay upon misunderstandings.

The Vietnamese aircraft did a search where he thought the fireball was
but he could not have got the distance correct. The track and his bearing
were several hundred miles apart, that was a distance that he could see
over the horizon.

The Fact that they did not find wreckage where he said he saw it does not
discredit him.

The Vietnamese did however see debris, photographed it and it sure looks
like aircraft debris to me, lots of it, and it was exactly where the
ocean current could have take it. That was discounted because it was
not on the map where the transponder stopped.

Then the Chinese Satelite took pics, and finally the Cathay Pacific
flight saw debris... All of these spottings of Debris at different times
and places all seem to be possible that the current was moving the debris.

Navy buddy tells me 50 to 70 miles a day in that area is not unclommon.
The current could be spinning around in circles, Some debris could
be going 3kts south and another bunch could end up on a split of the currrent
and go in the opposite direction or a complete circle.

There is a general current and localized currents that can spin in circles.

Absent looking with Sonar in the water at that location, I don't believe
anyone should believe what Malaysian Airlines tell us.

As for the cause..
I'll predict catastrophic disintegration that was caused most probably
by a flight computer gone mad that overstressed the airframe.

[trey kule]

As for the cause..
I'll predict catastrophic disintegration that was caused most probably
by a flight computer gone mad that overstressed the airframe.

You are right. More bizarre by the day, and based completely without facts. Good example.

We are talking, for the most part, of a generation or two raised on fantasy video games, so creating scenarios is second nature.

The cause. Well it will come out. I predict it was an alien takeover and a probing that went wrong (giggity) causing detraction in the cockpit, and the resulting fires, sightings, and political fallout. What country wants to suggest an alien hijacking? I even have reason to believe the crew was replaced by two americans named Quagmire and Griffin...and my prediction is based everybit on the reliable information posted here as any other.

[Pop n Fresh]

I was trying to go to sleep but...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/peop ... e/6556383/

Wanted to post this in case it turns out Courtney Love found it while you guys were posting in this thread instead of helping her look.

[boeingboy]

What I'm noticing is, a suspicion or double or quadruple hearsay of a dubiously qualified
opinion becomes fact.

Welcome to the club.

[boeingboy]

Wanted to post this in case it turns out Courtney Love found it while you guys were posting in this thread instead of helping her look.

Nah......shes too late. Turns out we were all looking in the wrong spot.

[boeingboy]

There seems to be a pretty reliable sighting at about 8:15 Malaysian time March 8th of a low flying white and red jet airliner at a place called Kuda Huvadoo in Dhall Atoll

Source?

[B52]

I won't be surprised if any village in Asia suddenly announces a big jet flew by.
I looked on Flight Tracker and one large A/C was flying nearby.
That island appears to be near the circuit for the airport.

I don't believe a word of the "military" and "primary" radar's of what they claim they saw.I

I see that no one has bothered to look for an underwater ping in the area of where the last transponder
was heard and so far, it's the only possible place with any evidence to support it.

If Malaysia Airlines can keep the world looking elsewhere for a few weeks, the battery will run out
on the underwater beacon.

I cannot comprehend why an underwater search has not started near that last transponder point
and equally concerned that INMARSAT are claiming the signal and the patten.

It's that INMARSAT signal that I'd like to see some clear evidence that it was transmitting
7 hours after that last transponder signal was received.

From my view, the words used don't sound they as though that information is credible.
What's disturbing is that it is not Rolls Royce or Inmarsat but MA giving out the information.
Could it be that they got the Eight Hour Time difference confused?

There seems to be a pretty reliable sighting at about 8:15 Malaysian time March 8th of a low flying white and red jet airliner at a place called Kuda Huvadoo in Dhall Atoll

Source?

[.Ben]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... g-jet.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-1 ... ed-summary


links to the reports of sightings of a low flying airliner, colours matching Malaysia airlines in the Maldives, don't want to get caught speculating but it says "several" witnesses saw the same plane. and witness says they could clearly make out the doors on the aircraft it was so low.

[trey kule]

I see that no one has bothered to look for an underwater ping in the area of where the last transponder
was heard and so far, it's the only possible place with any evidence to support it.

How do you know that no one has looked? You definitely must have some non public information sources.

[Expat]

If the last Inmarsat ping is so credible, they should also have a complete series of pings, showing the flight track.
Why do they only talk about the last one?

[boeingboy]

If I understand it correctly - a track is very hard to determine. The satalite only figures general direction based on the angle from the satalite.

'Handshakes' help determine location

When an aircraft powers up, the airplane automatically sends a signal logging onto the communications network. Thereafter, the ground station sends "polling signals" to the satellite, which relays them to the aircraft. When the aircraft responds, it is known as a "handshake." The information relayed during the handshake is very limited, but it contains a unique identifying code to identify the aircraft.

The purpose of the hourly "handshakes" is to allow the satellite to know the approximate location of the aircraft so that it can efficiently relay any messages. For this, the satellite needs to know the angle of the aircraft from the satellite.

An aircraft directly under the satellite would be at a 90 degree angle to the satellite; an aircraft at the poles would be at 0 degrees.

In the case of Malaysia Airlines 370, authorities have said, the last message sent was at 40 degrees. edit:NORTH OR SOUTH?

Accident investigators, with the help of satellite experts, have used that information to determine the possible location of the plane.

"We're trying to get up to speed on what that means and how to interpret it," one U.S. official told reporters. "It's sort of a new technology for us."

"We have never had to use satellite handshaking as the best possible source of information," the official said.

A completed handshake also suggests the plane was operational because the plane needs electrical power to send the return signal.

A plane's return signal is an acknowledgment that, "Yes, I'm still here," Coiley said.

In the case of Flight 370, the "last successful handshake occurred somewhere along that circle," the U.S. official said.

"A lot of that semicircle is over land; a lot of it is over water," he said. "We are trying to figure out how we can use that information to give us an idea of what the last known location of the airplane might have been."

There is a good read here on how the whole satalite thing works.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/17/world ... index.html

[ourkid2000]

I've heard people say Michael Mckay's observation was discredited.
That appears to be hearsay upon hearsay upon misunderstandings.

Cheers! Everyone have a drink!

[complexintentions]

*sigh*

A fire? Emergency diversion? VAMPI, GIVAL, et al are common waypoints along commercial airways in the area - I fly them all the time. You absolutely would NOT be entering airway waypoints into the FMS during a fire, especially an uncontrollable one. Sorry, but once again I agree with boeingboy. The theory of fire doesn't add up, even remotely. As much as a few seem to want very badly to believe in catastrophic failure or fire or wild-ass fantasies about corporate conspiracies to protect share prices, there simply isn't any evidence to support it, and much to support purposeful action to hide and divert an aircraft. I'll gladly change my mind if more comes to light but I'm simply looking at what has been discovered thus far.

If I wanted to "blend in" anonymously as a commercial airliner, I'd follow an airway with my transponder off, maybe at a non-standard alitude, i.e. +- 500 feet to reduce the risk of collision. (Although if this turns out to be a deliberate mission to divert an airliner, I highly doubt that midair collision is their chief worry). Way less chance of arousing suspicion than attempting to fly low-level, which if detected would virtually ensure there would be a military response. You have to understand the mindset in that part of the world - they are looking for reasons for things to make sense, not critically wondering why something doesn't quite add up! An unidentified target following an airway at an airliner altitude would not be instant cause for alarm, in the way an unidentified target moving fast and low would. A man walking in a crowd of other men is far more difficult to detect as a threat than a man running the opposite direction as everyone else.

The theory of flying in another aircraft's radar shadow is stupid beyond considering. Ask any military pilot how difficult it is to form up that closely on another aircraft. Bearing in mind that MH370 is a B777, not a fast jet, flown by civilian pilots, without formation training, at night, without the assistance of vectors from a controller or onboard radar capability that a military aircraft has. Surely no one believes they decided to shut off their comms, turn off their transponder, alter course, follow an airway that is 90 degrees to their planned flight, and then, noticing the flashing beacon of another airliner handily nearby, skilfully intercept it to fly undetected close by? Where's Michael Bay when we need him?

Again, I will never say nothing is possible. But why not focus on what we do know and what is a little more likely?

[photofly]

If the last Inmarsat ping is so credible, they should also have a complete series of pings, showing the flight track.
Why do they only talk about the last one?

I was wondering that.

[Colonel Sanders]

14 pages of this is the best argument for
micro-managing SOP's that I've ever seen.

[complexintentions]

The last one is by far the most crucial one, as it

a. establishes the latest time they know with some certainty the aircraft wasn't in a million pieces at the bottom of the ocean and
b. helps to establish the aircraft's last somewhat-known position, via very rough triangulation.

Pings an hour apart from something moving at M.84 aren't exactly going to give a precise track line.

[complexintentions]

The theories get more bizarre by the day.
What I'm noticing is, a suspicion or double or quadruple hearsay of a dubiously qualified
opinion becomes fact.

As for the cause..
I'll predict catastrophic disintegration that was caused most probably
by a flight computer gone mad that overstressed the airframe.

Good god. Speaking of dubiously qualified opinion. Ironic, much?

"Flight computer gone mad that overstressed the airframe"?

Now you're just embarrassing yourself. I can't even be bothered to explain how that isn't possible with the B777 FBW system design.

"IT WAS ROBOT KILLERS FROM THE FUTURE!!"

[1000 HP]

Hey folks,

Here's a good site for you guys that have some extra time:

http://www.tomnod.com

Just a thought.

PK

[pdw]

A previously suggested "nosehweel" blowup-scenario at their 35K levelloff ...

Watching some of the blow-out testing video, shows the force involved. Seeing the depth of the bands ... it's such a small chance of a blowout except if some sharp debris gets picked up on the runway between sweeps.

[ourkid2000]

Despite all this madness and speculation, If anyone wants a good chuckle check out the articles on the National Post on the missing MH370 flight......any article will do. Scroll down to the bottom and look for comments from poster Ottawa MenCentre. No doubt these are comments from our own B52. Even better, click on the username and have a quick look at all the posting he's done.

The relentlessness of this person is quite astonishing. Perhaps this person should be running the search.

Once again, if you'd like to play a drinking game......count the number of times he mentions Michael McKay and take a drink for each.