Air Canada Interviews

[Mig29]

I'd be careful generalising about flying at AC. I've been a 67 skipper for more than two years.
Last years T4 was well over 200. I'm on a 48hr layover in Copenhagen and am 47 years old.
I'm thinking that's not too bad. You might want to send in another resume.

I hope it's not personal since you posted what your T4 was, but I am wondering what is the real take home pay on that salary? That's seems to be the scariest part of any well paying Canadian job. You look at ME airlines and their take home is pretty much what you make face value. Even the highest paid AC or Transat guy still takes home no more then 10K/month (net) if we assume about 45% total deductions (gov't, unions, pension, etc)

[ywg9]

Theres a never to be called list oh boy..
Anybody know how much it costs one to find out if there on ir lol. Secondly any ideas if and when they may start interviewing and taking guys with no diploma program...kind fixrf on that cause stupid me did the intigrated license going eh who needs the diploma lol. or does anybody have a diploma for sale cheap lol.

Have a god one everbody

[Inverted2]

Theres a never to be called list oh boy..
Anybody know how much it costs one to find out if there on ir lol. Secondly any ideas if and when they may start interviewing and taking guys with no diploma program...kind fixrf on that cause stupid me did the intigrated license going eh who needs the diploma lol. or does anybody have a diploma for sale cheap lol.

Have a god one everbody

I'd be more worried about your 32 grammatical errors in that post than if you have a diploma or not!

[ywg9]

lol maybe thats why i am worried lol. i need to stop sending from my phone lol to small and i never re read what i type lol. i swear i spell checked my resume lol

[FL020]

ALL joking aside - looks like ywg9 is a Prime, foot in the door candidate for AC!

[ywg9]

FL020 thanks its just so hard to get more than my foot in that damn door...now back to looking for a fast and cheap diploma program of some kind

[FL020]

Told ya!! Diploma aint gonna help you!!! You need to learn how to gazzle and baffle the interviewers!!! Tell them your "real stories", tell them what they want to hear, tell them you wont stir the pot once hired! Degrees, languages, experience, and/or diploma's arent getting you in anymore.

[Mig29]

So you guys are saying that there isn't an unofficial 'official' no call list at AC??? lol

[bcflyer]

A no call list? LOL Man what rumour will people come up with next? I've never heard even a whispered mention of something so ludicrous in all my time around AC.

To the guys who don't want to reapply: Obviously you were interested in working at AC at one point or you wouldn't have applied in the first place. What changed after you were PFO'd?

In the end, if you don't want to apply/reapply then don't. Nobody is forcing you to do anything and there are thousands more that do want to work here. Even with the issues, its still the best flying job I've ever had.

[Mig29]

hey bcflyer,

I know, what can I say man, I'm a funny guy...just trying to make your day, that's my job
The reason I ask, is because I heard of a 'person' who was told (by someone inside) that she/he/it will never get a job there! Sounds harsh, yes? It could be well dismissed as a rumor, but then again it would suck if that kind of bs goes behind the scenes. There may never be a list, but what stops the guy screening the applications from NEVER pulling up your name for an interview?

[Sea2Sky]

Really sorry to hear about people not getting in right away. I think that the depth of your disappointment shows the degree of passion you might have shown on the job here. Don't give up if it's what you really want. If it isn't, then no offense, but the screening process worked.

Finding answers to the PFO is tough when there are so many variables involved in selection... could be a skewed result on the psych or cog eval that tanks a perfectly good interview; or a very smart, stable personality that just doesn't use the lingo they're looking for. They're not looking for cookie-cut answers, in fact, I've heard that they don't really care that much about the stories at all. They have heard it ALL. I think they're looking for a logical and organised presentation of your experiences that represents your thought process. As hard as it is to summarise who you are in an hour, it's probably just as difficult (in a different way) to ascertain who you are in such a short time.... especially if your stories become more important than how you present them.

If you haven't interviewed yet, I can't stress enough how important it is to do some interview prep. There is a great book and DVD out there by Cheryl Cage that will help get your thoughts organised, and as I have suggested a few times, the PCC course is right on point. The book and DVD is fluffy, but it gets you expressing yourself in words and formats that are familiar and comfortable with interviewers. The prep course helps you navigate the minefield a bit more confidently teaching you a few tricks, and more importantly, what NOT to blurt out. Just a couple pennies....

[sepia]

SEPIA,

Let's get things straight here.
1) the Days of making 250k/yr flying a 777 are over my friend. You may see the 777 for your last 2 or 3 years of your career with a good schedule, and when you do hold the seniority to bid the machine, you'll sit on reserve. Grrreat few last year at "the" airline of choice....How about properly manage your finances through the early years, and you aint gonna need the 250 k a year at the end!

Where do I even start here? First you say that the 250k/yr for the 777 are over. Your very next sentence then says that, in fact those days aren't over, but they'll exist for my last 3 years. Your expert opinion then says that I'll sit on reserve. You're so far away from understanding this it hurts my brain to think about how badly you misunderstand the system.

Do you seriously want to talk about properly managing your finances here? Why don't you head to any banks online retirement calculator and do some poking around. Find out how much you have to save, to retire at 60, and draw 130k/yr in income until you're 90. When you realize that the amount of money you have to save, is magnitudes more than your entire take home earnings at pretty much every canadian aviation job, then we can talk about proper finances. Your inability to understand that the Air Canada guy can also do the whole retirement savings thing is also very amusing.

2) VERY FEW good aviation jobs in Canada????
ummm Yah. Canada has very very few companies which don't suck horribly. I'm talking career jobs here. I still have fingers left when I count the good jobs on my hands. Perhaps your bar is much lower than mine.

You're kidding me right?

Nope

Making 38k a year working 18 days a month,

Been here 4 years, and I've yet to put in an 18 day month, and I've never been over 70% on my equipment, and my equipment doesn't have a max days worked clause. Certainly though, because you deem it to be, everyone must be working 18 days ad nauseum.

deadheading overseas in Y,

when J isn't available, which seems to be about 50% of the time. Oh yah, and it sure must suck going to rome for 48hrs. I'd certainly rather spend my layovers in Red Sucker Lake.

and having one of the worst reserve systems in the world is one of the best Jobs In Canada??
You of course, have done extensive research into this too obviously. You think you're going to have reserve C in Doha? Do you think you're gonna tell the guy saying "youuu fly now pirate" in China, that you're too tried to take the flight? Do some poking around PPrune before you make such insane comments.

OH I forgot, you;ll have to pay now to commute on your own airline......
Not true. Oh wow, this can't be, you've gotten your information incorrect again? How does unlimited between one picked city and your crew base until your passes kick in sound?

Dont get me wrong I DID apply twice, but my young age seems to be getting the better part of me. I figured I was young enough to put up with the 5 yrs of initial bullshit that this airline offered.

Re read your post here, and let me know whether or not you think the psych test worked in your case. Honestly. You seem to think that AC is the worst place going, yet you interviewed twice trying to get on here. That's the definition of insane.

Even after 10yrs, the junior captains are working 85 hrs, and 18 days.

Can you believe this, you're wrong again? There's not a single EMJ YYZ captain working more than 16 days this month. You also realize, that even if they WERE working 18 days every month, they could just bid out of that position right? So anyone that was doing that, would be entirely by their own choice.


Dont even let me get into commuting .

Yah, lets not even talk about how You can OPT to live in a city that isn't your crew base? Because, if we were to talk about that I'm sure you'd really hammer home how awful things are at AC.


AC isnt the end all of end all's.
Agreed. I just said it was one of the few places in Canada that didn't suck.

It's not the airline it used to be, and by the way things are moving it certainly isn't going to be the best place to be for a long time, UNLESS you are looking to make 130k a year flying a 767 for a low cost carrier working CARs RULES.....-but- we'll leave that for the next conversation.

You didn't get the memo about that contract being voted down? Shall we discuss other non relevant items from a dead document too in our next conversation?

3) Is that what the recruiters are really looking for, a formatted answer????? NOT a real, honest, forthright answer that comes from real experience?
No, they're looking for someone who understands the interview process. This isn't an Air Canada thing, this is standardized across nearly every large business.

I know of several f$#@ ups that have bullshat their way through several serious court proceedings and gotten hired at AC!!

You realize that you have to allow Air Canada access to your criminal record right? So you're finding fault with the Canadian legal system for giving these guys discharges I presume? If so, we might finally have some common ground here.


I know of a couple friends that have done more drugs than cobain, and have successfully been hired.

So let me get this straight. You have friends, whom have overdosed on heroin on numerous occasions? Oh yah right, you're just using sensationalist crap and lies to try and prop up your weak case.


I suppose If I learn how to lie, properly bullshit, and kiss some recruiter arse I may get the job on the third try.....

The MMPI test actually is calibrated to detect openness to the questions, and lying responses. I'm pretty sure if you're dumb enough to try and beat the test, you deserve to be caught.

oh I forgot, im not re-applying.

Thank you.

I must ask, if someting is so F'ed up on your interview/medical that they aren't going to hire ya now why the email stating to apply? Why didnt the recruiters know I came through there already? If a guy isn't getting hired now, exactly what will change when you re-apply, interview, and re-do that god damn psych test?

Perhaps they assume that people have bad days. Perhaps they want to give someone a second or third try to demonstrate they'e bettered themselves as a pilot, or in their ability to express themselves in an interview.


That's it for now
fl

[HuD 91gt]

How does commuting with AC work? Do they have a clause like Jazz where you can attempt a certain number of flights, and if you are not successful getting on they can not fault you? I'm just curious, as with my current position I commute across the country, and I always take WJ as AC loads are much to high.

[Old fella]

I'd be careful generalising about flying at AC. I've been a 67 skipper for more than two years.
Last years T4 was well over 200. I'm on a 48hr layover in Copenhagen and am 47 years old.
I'm thinking that's not too bad. You might want to send in another resume.

No sir, that's not bad at all.
You obviously made the grade, worked hard towards that goal (B767 in command) in your relatively young age. No doubt, future upgrades (salary and aircraft type) will come your way. Good on you and enjoy it all.
If I had been more astute and on the ball in my younger days, who knows, I may have been in your exact position myself. But that is all water under the bridge for me, many bridges actually.

[FL020]

How does commuting with AC work? Do they have a clause like Jazz where you can attempt a certain number of flights, and if you are not successful getting on they can not fault you? I'm just curious, as with my current position I commute across the country, and I always take WJ as AC loads are much to high.

NO clause..You miss the flight, you're a no show for duty. The company has even taken it further!! No Company passes AT ALL for new hires for 6 months......It's true, they're making you commute on WJ. Not bad for "the best airline in north america"

[sepia]

How does commuting with AC work? Do they have a clause like Jazz where you can attempt a certain number of flights, and if you are not successful getting on they can not fault you? I'm just curious, as with my current position I commute across the country, and I always take WJ as AC loads are much to high.

NO clause..You miss the flight, you're a no show for duty. The company has even taken it further!! No Company passes AT ALL for new hires for 6 months......It's true, they're making you commute on WJ. Not bad for "the best airline in north america"

Umm, at what point do you want to stop perpetuating your misinformation? You get unlimited passes between your crew base and a city you select until your passes kick in. I realize that posting factual stuff about Air Canada would hurt your rejection induced smear campaign greatly, but it would also make you look like less of a sore loser.

[sepia]

How does commuting with AC work? Do they have a clause like Jazz where you can attempt a certain number of flights, and if you are not successful getting on they can not fault you? I'm just curious, as with my current position I commute across the country, and I always take WJ as AC loads are much to high.

NO clause..You miss the flight, you're a no show for duty. The company has even taken it further!! No Company passes AT ALL for new hires for 6 months......It's true, they're making you commute on WJ. Not bad for "the best airline in north america"

Umm, at what point do you want to stop perpetuating your misinformation? You get unlimited passes between your crew base and a city you select until your passes kick in. Second, in every case I've ever heard of, if you miss a few realistic flights, they'll let you drop with no credit and then pick up the flying. I've NEVER heard of a "no show for duty".

I realize that posting factual stuff about Air Canada would hurt your rejection induced smear campaign greatly, but it would also make you look like less of a sore loser.

[Mig29]

It is really 'fascinating' how you guys can get out of control and start thowing mud and s**t at each other just because you don't agree with some things. People take things so personal, but don't have the ability to look beyond these differences and accept the fact that we will never see some things the same. It's just simple as that, but being cocky pilots as we are, we start a pissing match trying to demeaner each other to the lowest level! Is it because we are sitting behind a computer monitor? Or because that's who we truly are??

AC is a not a bad place to be, it's far from terrible, but it's not the best one out there either. Its a really good place when we compare it to some North American carriers but it has a loooooooong way to go when you compare it to some European, Asian or ME airlines. So far behind that I don't think it will ever catch up to them. And it doesn't have to, because the clientele that flies in N.America is totally different then folks in other parts of the world. People want cheapest tickets here but expect the max return on it. It doesn't work and quality can only go as far.

Looking at AC internaly, there are things that it needs to improve on. Inter-relationship between it's employees and mangement, the rift between its pilot memebership and its union, the embarrassingly low entry pilot pay, the uncertainty of it's proposed low cost carrier, flypast 60 group, etc, etc. But on the positive side, you have a company that has a diverse fleet to operate on, a safety record to be proud of, a great group of pilots coming from all corners of the world, very good route network to choose from, failrly descent pay once you get over the intial bumps and very generous personal travel ability which even some of the elite airlines can't match!

[sepia]

Mig-29: Would you not stand up for something you're proud of if it were to be directly attacked by lies meant solely to discredit it? I didn't seek this guy out. He came on here, posting lies designed to smear a reputation, under the guise of truth. I've just set the record straight, and if you think that it's unfair to call someone a sore loser who begins a smear campaign after his second PFO letter, than that's your right.

[V1ummmm]

Sepia is right. Here is a guy who writes this last spring:

Are you guys serious?? You're still looking At reapplying/applying after reading the rest of the shit show of an airline this is recently!!?? You must be all super desperate..

Yet he reapplies....

He gives erroneous advice to people looking for answers because he himself doesn't work there and has been PFO'd twice.

And in spite of it all, he continues to troll the forum of a company that has said "f#$k off", squawking about things he has no business speaking about. Like somebody above said, I guess the process works. Sad, really.

[Mig29]

Mig-29: Would you not stand up for something you're proud of if it were to be directly attacked by lies meant solely to discredit it? I didn't seek this guy out. He came on here, posting lies designed to smear a reputation, under the guise of truth. I've just set the record straight, and if you think that it's unfair to call someone a sore loser who begins a smear campaign after his second PFO letter, than that's your right.

You are not wrong, in fact I support your defense in being proud of where you work! Let's just try to keep it civil and not insult people.

Sepia is right. Here is a guy who writes this last spring:

FL020 wrote:
Are you guys serious?? You're still looking At reapplying/applying after reading the rest of the shit show of an airline this is recently!!?? You must be all super desperate..


Yet he reapplies....

He gives erroneous advice to people looking for answers because he himself doesn't work there and has been PFO'd twice.

And in spite of it all, he continues to troll the forum of a company that has said "f#$k off", squawking about things he has no business speaking about. Like somebody above said, I guess the process works. Sad, really.

FL, if this is true then you should really consider going to another thread, as this one will do you no good. It sucks getting a PFO, we have all been there at one point, but it's not the end of the life and no reason to put down that employer and people who work there. If the employer has insulted you personally in anyway, then fire away...but this is not a reason to be envious of them. I always say, that physically there is NO way all of us will be able to work at AC (or WJ, Jazz, Transat) as there are not enough seats, so accept the reality and move on.

[The People's Pilot]

Important to note that while it is possible for someone to "bs" their way through the interview, it's quite difficult to do the same on the pysch eval. Apart from a few blatant questions there really is no right or wrong answers as it just comes down to being brutally honest about yourself.

If you're not honest however, it may be difficult to remember how you answered question #10 which is very similar to question #465 and if answered differently will result in a "null/void". If you have too many "null/void" results it will have a negative impact on your application.

The interview is your "practical" exam while the psych/cog test is your "theory."

They're not looking for pilots anymore, but rather people who fit within the character parameters they have set forth...These people just happen to have a pilots license.

[FL020]

sepia wrote:

Umm, at what point do you want to stop perpetuating your misinformation? You get unlimited passes between your crew base and a city you select until your passes kick in. Second, in every case I've ever heard of, if you miss a few realistic flights, they'll let you drop with no credit and then pick up the flying. I've NEVER heard of a "no show for duty".

I realize that posting factual stuff about Air Canada would hurt your rejection induced smear campaign greatly, but it would also make you look like less of a sore loser.

Let me straighen only one thing out at this time....As my buddy just said, and I QUOTE " The class was told 'no pass travel for 6 months' this comes directly from the horses mouth. Now If you can prove to me - sepia - that I am in fact full of shit please do so, as this "friend" of mine commutes from Calgary and has yet to become an employee able to list himself yet. BUT according to you, I should instruct him to let someone know that he DOES has unlimited passes and that he should quit travelling on WJ......

[sepia]

I guess you were at the last union meeting where they told us unlimited passes fam flight passes between a selected city and your base? I would tell your friend to get in touch with his base chair and figure out how to get this moving forward.


So you said lets deal with this one issue at a time. I can't wait for your next fact filled correction.

[BlueSkies12]

A little off topic for the initial subject of this thread but having unlimited passes between where you live and are based is pending. Us new hires are advised to travel WJ until further notice for commuting.
Although this is true information for October 12th, it will probably have changed by the 13th