Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

[bizjets101]

The satellite shots were taken on Mar 16 - the USAF P-8A Poseidon (B737-800)
searched today but returned to Perth without spotting the debris.

[whodareswins]

Which weirdly enough had much of the data deleted recently. And his family moved out of their home the day before the accident.

He's a grandfather and his kids are grown up and don't live at home. His wife often stays with her one of her children when he's away on a trip. News articles reference his wife being quite upset at these accusations. Pure sensationalist reporting by the media. Making story out of nothing.

[pdw]

Someone gets "upset" like that means they're probably 'legit' and so it looks like the media is coming up empty there, they'll just have to come up with another angle for the next newscast.

[pdw]

Here's an angle.

The latest satellite debris is found where seas were calmer for the previous five days so items would stay closer together, not drifting too far, and therefore make it easier to find the aircraft.

The angle: The PIC decides to search out the calmest water /daylight to make his successful emergency landing, perhaps not even realizing his transponder was off and no-one to find their direction in time.

[bmc]

Interesting suggestion to have FDR and CVR uploaded to the cloud.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... 6H20140320

[boogs82]

Interesting suggestion to have FDR and CVR uploaded to the cloud.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... 6H20140320

With all of the advances in technology, does anybody think it would be feasible to have a data link from the aircraft to ensure flight data and cockpit voice data are stored on the ground as well as the aircraft?

I guess I wasn't the only one to think about that.

[MrWings]

The angle: The PIC decides to search out the calmest water /daylight to make his successful emergency landing, perhaps not even realizing his transponder was off and no-one to find their direction in time.

If I had a choice of where to ditch, picking a spot in the ocean 1500 miles from land would be pretty much on the bottom of the list no matter how calm the water was at that location.

[swordfish]

Well, the broadcast media have raised the possibility/question/hypothesis that he did not know where he was (lost all navigational capability) and after flying for several hours, all he could see was water....?

Of course, the sun always rises in the East, so how difficult would it be to go North - assuming there was some light in the sky at altitude?

And there are MANY unanswered questions prior to that event, I realize. Having the transponder turned on mode C would do nothing for him in that part of the world.

[pdw]

Another thing ... say your floating compass becomes the only levelling reference remaining, it's still possible to fly IFR on the southerly (S) heading in darkness because it deviates twice as rapidly from S without turning opposite first.

I understood from studying other ditching accidents in wavy conditions the front end of the aircraft is most vulnerable, thus less chance of survival. Also, was led to believe that flying east there is daylight sooner ... so it may be helpful to discover what time was first light at that end of the ocean "1500" miles west off Australia. If the landing was successful, the last ping could be from their water location at " 8:11 " ?

[pdw]

Having the transponder turned on mode C would do nothing for him in that part of the world.

At least part of the way there ...

The oil rig sighting ... the Maldives ... were they ruled out ? Is the door closed on those ?

[pdw]

If I had a choice of where to ditch, picking a spot in the ocean 1500 miles from land would be pretty much on the bottom of the list no matter how calm the water was at that location.

How much warmer would the water be off Perth than off Phucket ?

Is it better to land with empty fuel tanks in order to minimize impact momentum, and allow empty fuel-storage to make a (hopefully) floating aircraft more bouyant plus give time to disconnect the escape chutes/rafts ?

[MrWings]

Then fly circles and you'll stay near last know position. That is where people will start looking for you. Fly towards land in an attempt to find an airport. Ditching that far out from land is hopeless no matter how warm the water.

If the plane is there, they didn't go there willingly. I am leaning toward pilot incapacitation.

[swordfish]

Another thing ... say your floating compass becomes the only levelling reference remaining, it's still possible to fly IFR on the southerly (S) heading in darkness because it deviates twice as rapidly from S without turning opposite first.

I understood from studying other ditching accidents in wavy conditions the front end of the aircraft is most vulnerable, thus less chance of survival. Also, was led to believe that flying east there is daylight sooner ... so it may be helpful to discover what time was first light at that end of the ocean "1500" miles west off Australia. If the landing was successful, the last ping could be from their water location at " 8:11 " ?

Your age is showing, pdw...talking about magnetic compass behavior...

[pdw]

Exactly the same age as the PIC of this aircraft.

[pdw]

If the plane is there, they didn't go there willingly. I am leaning toward pilot incapacitation.

+1

[AirFrame]

If the plane is there, they didn't go there willingly. I am leaning toward pilot incapacitation.

Payne Stewart all over again. This time, pointed out towards open water.

[pdw]

+1 ... in that case that experienced flight engineer apparently riding in the back might have figured out a way to survive if there was one, if anyone was able it would be him, ... ie sucking on any unused oxygen masks and making his way to the front eventually. Perhaps a recovery of manual control was possible, but then no idea of whereabouts/location once out over the ocean far enough.

[ogopogo]

With all of the advances in technology, does anybody think it would be feasible to have a data link from the aircraft to ensure flight data and cockpit voice data are stored on the ground as well as the aircraft?

Two Canadian companies are aiming to do this precise thing:

http://flyht.com/

and

http://www.star-navigation.com/products.php

Excellent plan, but until someone MANDATES it, it just isn't going to happen. Sad but rue. The airlines won't put an extra peanut on the aircraft (a whole other story) and the pilots don't want to be watched by Big Brother.

The technology is there.

[jjbaker]

Someone gets "upset" like that means they're probably 'legit' and so it looks like the media is coming up empty there, they'll just have to come up with another angle for the next newscast.

However harsh and tasteless it appears to be, one can only hope that something turns up soon, so that the press may get closure on this thumb-sucking idiocy expert speak guess- game of theirs. The media coverage on this lost airplane is becoming more nasty than the loss of life...

[bizjets101]

Anybody remember the B727 that ditched 183 miles from Gander - it was being returned at the end of a lease from Malta - back to Peru - Sept 11 1990 - with 18 persons on board - flying from Iceland to Gander.

It ran out of fuel, declared Mayday - and was never seen again - from what I recall - nobody wanted to spend the money to look for it.


On another note; CNN just hired my friend Miles O'Brien to report on MH370 for the next two weeks. Miles worked for CNN for 17 years. He also owns a Cirrus SR-22 - for those familiar with him - he lost his left arm on Feb 16th while in Japan - and didn't even tell anyone for a few days.

He was on Erin Burnett/CNN last night and she asked about his arm - worth a watch if only to hear such a positive attitude; click here.

Finally - search area weather for 48 hours is good.

[1&2SpooledUp]

Anybody remember the B727 that ditched 183 miles from Gander - it was being returned at the end of a lease from Malta - back to Peru - Sept 11 1990 - with 18 persons on board - flying from Iceland to Gander.

It ran out of fuel, declared Mayday - and was never seen again - from what I recall - nobody wanted to spend the money to look for it.


On another note; CNN just hired my friend Miles O'Brien to report on MH370 for the next two weeks. Miles worked for CNN for 17 years. He also owns a Cirrus SR-22 - for those familiar with him - he lost his left arm on Feb 16th while in Japan - and didn't even tell anyone for a few days.

He was on Erin Burnett/CNN last night and she asked about his arm - worth a watch if only to hear such a positive attitude; click here.

Finally - search area weather for 48 hours is good.

It was rumoured that the ditching was a hoax and the 727 flew to an unknown location under radar. I remember hearing that story from an ATC friend that was working that oceanic sector at Gander Centre the day it happened.

Thanks for bringing that up! I had totally forgotten about that.

[bizjets101]

Air Malta B727-200 with Peruvian registration OB-1303 was ditched with a 18 person crew of Faucett Airlines of Peru on board - none of the 18 crew were ever seen again.



Found this post on pprune dated January 14th by oldebloke of Vancouver,

There was no report of this accident Released.Under ICOA art 13 the country of registry ,Peru?,should have 'produced' the report.Shortly after the accident there was a 'change' of goverment,and nobody followed up on the ICAO requirement.As an accident Investigator for Canada's airline Association ,of the day,Calpa,I recieved several documents from ATCand pilot reports(of the US crews that conversed with during the Accident),but no one(TSB,NTSB) formulated a report.

The flight ,as has been pointed out was returning home after a summer stint with Malta.The crew where fit as testified by the ramp people in Iceland.The flight had nearly six hours of fuel on board for the 3.45 flight to Canada.After takeoff the flight was thought to have steadily turned left from the basic track of 234..After 4 hours ,with no navaid reception or VHF atc communication the flight started to 'call' on guard which was picked up by several US carriers.Upon discussion with all the crews involved,it was establihed that the flight had 'drifted' southwest of it's track and was off(southeast) the Canadian coast.

There was no VHFcommunication recieved via the long range site in Newfoundland (200 miles at altitude).The flight was restricted to below FL270 due no HF fitted.The interflight interchange of weather(on radar at long range) at position ,cloud cover,and sun position established that if the flight took up a Northwest heading it was only approx 250 off the coast.Radar showed up evidence of a 'squall line'between the flight and the coast.Later contact with the flight was establihed via a second air (US)carrier.Upon querying the flight situation the Peruvian crew stipulated that they were at 6000'on a Southwest heading preparing to Ditch as they didn't want to penetrate/cross the Weather off the coast.

It's believed that the Chief Pilot, the working pilots and their families were onboard,retuning to Peru.
The seas were quite rough at the time,and a report came 24hours later from a Russian Fish boat of sighting of the aircraft,The fish boat's position was suspect as it was within the Canadian Boundaries.

Later wreckage was picked up in the form of Tarpaulins etc

[bizjets101]

Back to MH370 - only update overnight - Malaysian Airlines CEO is confirming the aircraft was carrying Lithium Batteries in the cargo hold; Click Here.

[pdw]

Still haven't heard how many batteries, or their weight.

Other than the discussion about a fire, this is the type of cargo that will try to sink like a stone when submerged in water. If there's a lot and loaded towards the rear of the plane, once buoyancy properties take over in water the normal W&B concerns are out, as even noticeable in footage of the Hudson River accident (where aft-sinking of the fuse-lage started first).

The fuel tanks flown empty at CofG with the fuselage much less float-able at the tail end, ie with any heavier / high-density cargo there, ... probably only increases tail-end sink-rate of aircraft that may have stayed intact landing on water.

[kev994]

I just watched a briefing on these batteries, they are extremely hazardous, they make their own oxygen if they are on fire, really hard to put out (IIRC class D? I know Halon doesn't put it out). The examples given of fire in flight I think in 15-20 mins every flight had basically disintegrated. Nowhere near 7 hours.