rigpiggy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:32 am
Was looking for some contract crew for the winter. Talked to the guys in Montana. Nope they pay them year round to keep them in the lineup...... Most companies in the states are actually looking at there people as a resource to manage, not just exploit and dump in the garbage
They pay you, but they own you.
Red-till-dead, endless seasons, and exports. The dollars to bullshit ratio simply isn’t there which is why lots of people here who are qualified to go to Bridger, Cal Fire, etc don’t go there.
rigpiggy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:32 am
Was looking for some contract crew for the winter. Talked to the guys in Montana. Nope they pay them year round to keep them in the lineup...... Most companies in the states are actually looking at there people as a resource to manage, not just exploit and dump in the garbage
They pay you, but they own you.
Red-till-dead, endless seasons, and exports. The dollars to bullshit ratio simply isn’t there which is why lots of people here who are qualified to go to Bridger, Cal Fire, etc don’t go there.
What do you mean? It was my understanding the US fire programs pay you year round for 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. That's a schedule a lot of Canadian pilots have in other pilot jobs, for probably half the salary the US fire programs offer you.
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Dhc6to8 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 1:38 am
It is time for the Canadian firebombing industry to change and pull themselves out of the stone age… every operator in the US now offers rotations and double what Canada pays. One US based operator starts out DEC Captains at 185K USD and 3 weeks On/3 weeks OFF, albeit for a longer season. One European operator even offers 11 day ON/11days OFF for qualified scooper pilots. If companies like Conair want to attract and retain aircrew in the future, they will need to adapt and change the way the job is structured. The old way of doing things, because it was always done that way is not a viable model going forward. The younger generations want a LIFE-WORK balance and if operators don’t adapt, to provide that, then they will find themselves without qualified aircrew. The time of the dinosaurs in Canadian aviation is soon to be a thing of the past. The world evolves and moves on. Conair still has some dinosaurs left in the seniority system and at the management table. Barry Marsden once told me that to secure aircrew in the future he might have to select future pilots and send them for their basic license and training and bond them for a decade just to fill seats. That is not the answer, the answer is to adapt the job so that it provides a lifestyle that is sustainable over a career - by providing rotations that allow an individual to have a LIFE-WORK balance. The dinosaurs sacrificed their marriages, summers and lives - why should the next generation?
The US operator that pays 185k USD, would that be Bridger Aerospace?
How do you even keep doing that job as a dinosaur? Don't they fly full duty days with dozens of drops in terrible turbulence? I don't think I would want to do that when I'm old.
Any news on what Conair is like nowadays for pilots?
Schedule, pay, base, benefits? Overall moral?
Would someone with thousands of hours on a Q400 (and above 5K total) be able to go straight on it? Or would he require to go on the birddogs first? Also, if zero hours on amphib but willing to get the rating, are they any hopes to internally eventually “upgrade” to the amphib at some point?
Schedule? 130 day contract unless you got a 100 day (less common). Two stretches of 7 days off to deal with 3/30 and 5/42. Normal shift 10-22 but can be adjusted because when things are burning.. Alerts come out day before. Blue is like reserve. Yellow is on base but depending how far you are you can stay at accommodations after DIing plane. Red is on base ready to go.
Pay? Abysmal, but expect it to go up. Contract’s up this year.
Base? All over. BC, AB, YT, AK, and AUS. Your base will depend on equipment and seniority. There’s also a roster of spare pilots. Base changes are common so expect to be away from your home base for a month and you’ll be fine.
Benefits? Pretty standard health and dental RRSP matching etc. No travel bennies.. but lots of time off means you can find deals instead. Benefits aren’t paid offseason first few years (I have other benefits so I don’t bother).
Morale? Wrong time of year to answer that. Ask me next spring. It really depends on the individual’s constitution. If you’re a miserable person and don’t like change or unpredictability or you have a home life that requires constant attention or get into the politics of company or competition or customer… then you’ll probably have poor morale. Most here are pretty easy going, it could always be better but it’s pretty good, lifers at this company. I’m going back next year.
Q400? Don’t know. Heavy tanker FO has been an entry level position in the past but this year was the first year it completely replaced the Convair so there were a lot of new captains to train up and internal movement for FOs. I’d expect FO positions to open up next year or year after. Expect to learn how to fly the Q all over again based on what we do with it.. but your knowledge will be invaluable because skills atrophy only flying a couple hundred hours a year with winters off.
The Fireboss is not a plane to learn on. It’s a plane to come to with a lot of experience.. and then find out how much you don’t know about flying. That’s been my impression of it from other pilots.
Thank you for all the intel, that’s pretty valuable.
I guess I’ll wait to see what this new contract brings but I’ll definitely keep it in the back of my mind. I fully expect it to be busy during the summer. Fires don’t care about your schedule so it’s 100% understandable.
I appreciate the long response. I’ll probably stop by Abbotsford next time I get some time off in YVR.
Just go into the interview knowing that civilian “off the street” hires start from square one in terms of salary and matching RRSP etc. We found out mid season some years back that a group of former Canadian Forces (CF) pilots who were hired in the same year were brought in several salary levels above entry and were put in the 7% matching RRSP level. To get to the 7% level you need to be at the company for years. We were really pissed at this as we were civilian pilots and some had a lot of low level time in the logbook.
Upper management used terms such as “we are a seniority based operation” etc. to excuse the lack of negotiation at hiring. I am not bashing the CF guys, they are great people with outstanding skills. Just know that the playing field is not level between the two hiring pools. To use the language of management speak: “we had seen something that could not be unseen”. The union was not able to do anything about the hiring discrepancy. It is what it is. Just go in with your eyes open. It is a great company to work for, and as others have said before, it is some of the best aviation Canada has to offer. The biggest selling point is the people, there are some really great people at Conair.
6to8
Or....you get hired and see for yourself. Crazy I know! If anyone is looking to leave their current situation then why not take 4 month and give Conair a try and if it's not for you then you are ahead on pay(assuming you currently make less than $15k/month which is base year 1 pay) and on to your next gig. Keep in mind though that getting hired isn't all that easy as with most operations they are hiring more for your future role than the entry level position. That meaning you have to have the bulk of what's required experience wise, less fire specific experience, as at 200 hrs/year it's a long road otherwise.
If you do have the following, historically about average for hiring, then you may get an interview:
3-5000TT
1000 MPIC
500 float/T-Whell
Some exposure to lager(705) Aircraft
Stop in at any base and you'll find pilots happy to give you a tour and all the details of work conditions. You may even get a free coffee or a government funded bottle of water out of the deal. At very least you will provide the locals with a reason to go outside.
Would it be likely for Conair to hire someone with no MPIC/705 experience (but float/tailwheel time) who has the intention of flying Caravans/AT802s/Aero Commanders, and not the larger planes? Or are they pretty much looking for future larger air tanker captains and everything else is just part of the training/experience building to get there?
Apply and find out. Like any company they would choose future flexibly over near term hole filling. If you have 500 float/tailwheel and an ATPL then throw in a CV.
