QOL for commuters

[Crewbunk]

Technically, it is well within their right to insist you start and finish your pairing in your home base, as written. I agree, it makes no sense. I think the company is pissed off at the last vote.

But, as I said, their are repercussions. Now, when Crew Scheduling comes calling asking for favours, the answer has been Foxtrot Uniform. Including calling up a Calgary guy to “rescue” the YYC-FRA flight and he insists he will only start in YVR.

It does work both ways. When a FRA-YYC crew (for example) is looking to be released from the YYC-YVR DH and C/S refuses. You know it won’t end well.

[digits_]

The best gig right now for Calgary Commuters is YVR 787 RP, as there are direct FRA and LHR pairings that start and end with a DH from YVR to YYC. As a commuter, you can cancel and bank your DH and just drive to the airport in Calgary for your flight. However, to get any of these flights you’ll need at least 3-4 years of seniority. There are 787 RP’s with 7-8 years that have effectively made YYC a base, as all of their pairings start and end out of YYC.

All three positions, CA, FO and RP, on the YYC to LHR/FRA start with a DH between YVR and YYC. But beware, on a memo from “higher up” Crew Scheduling has not been granting releases from the DH. So YYC commuters have had to commute from YYC to YVR to DH from YVR to YYC to begin their pairing!

Why on earth would someone who is in YYC have to commute on their own dime to YVR, to then have the company DH them back to YYC

What interest or benefit does crew sched get from forcing someone to DH from YVR? That's the most non sensical thing I've read in a while. It doesn't benefit any party (at least in my mind it doesn't)

I'm not aiming this at you by the way, I'm just trying to understand the logic here

Also makes me wonder what would happen if people just stopped doing that. And show up in YYC for their required flight. Let's say this ends up in a court room somewhere. What possible reason could the company bring up to fire the pilot

Are there other industries that have similar nonsensical rules?

[twa22]

Technically, it is well within their right to insist you start and finish your pairing in your home base, as written. I agree, it makes no sense. I think the company is pissed off at the last vote.

But, as I said, their are repercussions. Now, when Crew Scheduling comes calling asking for favours, the answer has been Foxtrot Uniform. Including calling up a Calgary guy to “rescue” the YYC-FRA flight and he insists he will only start in YVR.

It does work both ways. When a FRA-YYC crew (for example) is looking to be released from the YYC-YVR DH and C/S refuses. You know it won’t end well.

Yea, I do get what you're saying, but it's still frustrating to hear or read that these things happen, saying it's non-sensical is wording it nicely...

[genetic jack hammer]

Things get a bit harder if you're an East coast commuter or Winnipeg to YYZ.

Bit off topic but I commute Ywg-yyz working for jazz and rarely have a problem. If I have been bumped I’ve always made it on the next flight

The Jazz commuting policy definitely does help.

[Canadaflyer46]

All three positions, CA, FO and RP, on the YYC to LHR/FRA start with a DH between YVR and YYC. But beware, on a memo from “higher up” Crew Scheduling has not been granting releases from the DH. So YYC commuters have had to commute from YYC to YVR to DH from YVR to YYC to begin their pairing!

[/quote]


Unreallllllllll. Everyone thinks AC is the end all be all, but when they pull stunts like this, it just really makes you question your decisions. Like what purpose does this serve other than to piss off every commuting pilot?? I don’t see any benefit to this. This would never happen at WJ.
[/quote]

This EXACT thing happened at WJ during covid. I had several friends who bumped from YYC to YYZ in the layoffs, and had to change YYZ-YYC DHs to something closer than YYZ and then fly standby on their own dime to catch a DH to YYC. Otherwise no pay for a DH day. ALPA managed to get them to drop that shit pretty quick, and from then on you were still paid if you didn't take the DH. If there's something that can be done to spite the pilot group, WJ is way ahead of AC.

[Crewbunk]

Also makes me wonder what would happen if people just stopped doing that. And show up in YYC for their required flight. Let's say this ends up in a court room somewhere. What possible reason could the company bring up to fire the pilot

The big problem would be if the pilot did not show up for his DH in YVR, Crew Tracking would post him as “no show” and start procedures to cover his YYC-LHR/FRA flight. The same thing on the reverse, imagine a crew member when flying FRA-YYC-DHYVR, did not DH to YVR as written on his block. He’d be in a world of trouble if he were reassigned and not contactable as he got off in YYC. Unless released, C/S expects you to be where your pairing says you’ll be.

But …. the company is starting to realize it’s a two way street, and things are returning to normal. It didn’t take long for word to get out on internal forums, and pilots stopped “doing favours”.

I like the “mood” among the younger pilots we have hired. (I’ve been here 35+ years). They still have the “yup, I can do it” gung ho attitude. But now, they don’t do it for free.

As ACPA’s “mood” too is changing, it’s all good for the pilots.

[digits_]

Also makes me wonder what would happen if people just stopped doing that. And show up in YYC for their required flight. Let's say this ends up in a court room somewhere. What possible reason could the company bring up to fire the pilot

The big problem would be if the pilot did not show up for his DH in YVR, Crew Tracking would post him as “no show” and start procedures to cover his YYC-LHR/FRA flight. The same thing on the reverse, imagine a crew member when flying FRA-YYC-DHYVR, did not DH to YVR as written on his block. He’d be in a world of trouble if he were reassigned and not contactable as he got off in YYC. Unless released, C/S expects you to be where your pairing says you’ll be.

I understand that's how the system works at the moment, but here's absolutely no reason why it would need to be like that.

Can you imagine hiring a contractor who lives 5 minutes away from your place, but you have him drive 2 hours in the wrong direction only to give him a cab ride on your costs to your house? And if he were to drive to your house right away, you'd fire him for not following your procedures

Let's say you have the deadhead YVR to YYC. And then a flight from YYC. If the pilot shows up in YYC, it would be hard for the company to claim you were unwilling to work, or did not attend work. You could even show up in YYC when you were supposed to report in YVR, and both sides would still come out ahead. You're ready to work where you are (early) and you don't take up a deadhead seat so a paying pax or commuter could use it.

Happy to hear the mentality is changing somewhat. I understand that 10 years ago companies would get away with this, but pilots don't grow on trees anymore. If you would all collectively stop doing those nonsense things (I know, big if), it would be unlikely the company would fire all off them.

It's a power play and a disrespectful attitude towards a pilot's time. Especially towards commuters. It should stop.

[Crewbunk]

Oh I know all the theories. I’ve heard just about every permutation and combination. But …. the bottom line is that AC does not have a YYC base. If one wanted to live in Calgary, but work out of YVR, that’s your choice. However, you DO work out of YVR. Getting from YYC to YVR is on you.

Historically, AC has not been very friendly toward commuters. Not, unfriendly, just not terribly friendly. I have my theories why, stemming from duty day acknowledgement, but those are just my theories.

Also historically, as mentioned, a pilot was able to “bank” those unused deadheads for future use. Hopefully that cooperative spirit is returning. If however, it becomes onerous for the company and integrity of the operation becomes in question, they’ll just route the pairing from another base. For example YYZ-LHR-YYC-LHR-YYZ. No DHs and they now have full control over you for the 7 days or so it takes to run the pairing.

But …. just showing up in YYC for your YVR pairing without being released will not end well.

Btw, this is nothing new. It goes right back to when I was hired and odd pairings popped up. Things like YUL pilots deadheading to YYZ to do YYZ pairings while YYZ pilots were deadheading to YUL to do YUL pairings, at the same time. And ….. don’t forget when the A340 was based in YWG with all pairings starting/ending with a DH, and NO releases.

[TheAlcalde]

Why on earth would someone who is in YYC have to commute on their own dime to YVR, to then have the company DH them back to YYC

What interest or benefit does crew sched get from forcing someone to DH from YVR? That's the most non sensical thing I've read in a while. It doesn't benefit any party (at least in my mind it doesn't)

I'm not aiming this at you by the way, I'm just trying to understand the logic here

No one is empowered to make decisions in this goat show company. exercising discretion is highly frowned upon on the logistical side

[aeronauticaldisaster]

Oh I know all the theories. I’ve heard just about every permutation and combination. But …. the bottom line is that AC does not have a YYC base. If one wanted to live in Calgary, but work out of YVR, that’s your choice. However, you DO work out of YVR. Getting from YYC to YVR is on you.

Historically, AC has not been very friendly toward commuters. Not, unfriendly, just not terribly friendly. I have my theories why, stemming from duty day acknowledgement, but those are just my theories.

Also historically, as mentioned, a pilot was able to “bank” those unused deadheads for future use. Hopefully that cooperative spirit is returning. If however, it becomes onerous for the company and integrity of the operation becomes in question, they’ll just route the pairing from another base. For example YYZ-LHR-YYC-LHR-YYZ. No DHs and they now have full control over you for the 7 days or so it takes to run the pairing.

But …. just showing up in YYC for your YVR pairing without being released will not end well.

Btw, this is nothing new. It goes right back to when I was hired and odd pairings popped up. Things like YUL pilots deadheading to YYZ to do YYZ pairings while YYZ pilots were deadheading to YUL to do YUL pairings, at the same time. And ….. don’t forget when the A340 was based in YWG with all pairings starting/ending with a DH, and NO releases.

The old "it's always been that way"

While ACPA played Tiddlywinks, ALPA & even CUPE played like adults and got their employees some respect and a subsequent commuting policy.

You get the respect you deserve. When your collective resolve is of a 6th grade playground, you get those results.

Fortunately, the tides appear to be changing. Finally.

[bcflyer]

The reason they want you to start your pairing on base is to allow them to reassign you if your pairing changes or if they need you last min for something else. As many have explained it’s your choice to commute and your responsibility to be at your base at the time your pairing starts.

[PostmasterGeneral]

The reason they want you to start your pairing on base is to allow them to reassign you if your pairing changes or if they need you last min for something else. As many have explained it’s your choice to commute and your responsibility to be at your base at the time your pairing starts.

Read up on the reassignment rules.

[Dash.Trash]

Oh I know all the theories. I’ve heard just about every permutation and combination. But …. the bottom line is that AC does not have a YYC base. If one wanted to live in Calgary, but work out of YVR, that’s your choice. However, you DO work out of YVR. Getting from YYC to YVR is on you.

Historically, AC has not been very friendly toward commuters. Not, unfriendly, just not terribly friendly. I have my theories why, stemming from duty day acknowledgement, but those are just my theories.

Also historically, as mentioned, a pilot was able to “bank” those unused deadheads for future use. Hopefully that cooperative spirit is returning. If however, it becomes onerous for the company and integrity of the operation becomes in question, they’ll just route the pairing from another base. For example YYZ-LHR-YYC-LHR-YYZ. No DHs and they now have full control over you for the 7 days or so it takes to run the pairing.

But …. just showing up in YYC for your YVR pairing without being released will not end well.

Btw, this is nothing new. It goes right back to when I was hired and odd pairings popped up. Things like YUL pilots deadheading to YYZ to do YYZ pairings while YYZ pilots were deadheading to YUL to do YUL pairings, at the same time. And ….. don’t forget when the A340 was based in YWG with all pairings starting/ending with a DH, and NO releases.

Literally yesterday the YYC-FRA flight had a mechanical issue resulting in a significant delay and the crew being pulled off for duty day issues. What does the company do? Call up crews that live in Calgary to help out and save the day. They love commuters when it helps them out but the rest of the time they are scum to them and no favours given. Hopefully everyone who gets denied releases or is given the run around remembers it next time they get the call to “save the day.”

[FNGYYZ]

.

[JHR]

AvCanada rule #32...don't compare us to America. It is a different market

[Crewbunk]

Literally yesterday the YYC-FRA flight had a mechanical issue resulting in a significant delay and the crew being pulled off for duty day issues. What does the company do? Call up crews that live in Calgary to help out and save the day. They love commuters when it helps them out but the rest of the time they are scum to them and no favours given. Hopefully everyone who gets denied releases or is given the run around remembers it next time they get the call to “save the day.”

In the example you cite, they did what I would expect them to do; they drafted three pilots from the base operating the flight, (namely YVR), deadhead them to YYC to continue the pairing.

Realistically, unless you have three Calgary pilots/commuters available in Calgary to continue the pairing, you may as well draft none, as only one or two still operates under the restrictions of the third.

[cloudseeker]

Hey gents,

Currently in the hiring process and wondering what would be the best equipment for a junior YUL based (220 or RP)?

Mid thirties looking more for qol rather than aircraft size.

Cheers!