New payscale

[throwawaycorporate]

Are these posted rates then subject to 9.1% on top?

Is the pension 10% again on top of the rate +9.1%?

[airbussy]

Based on my quick calculations, the posted rates look to include the 9.1%. If it was 15.5% the numbers would be quite a bit lower. The 10% pension contribution is entirely separate.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

Two are airlines and the other is an IT company?

I don't understand you question.

WestJet management is in the habit of telling us that WestJet is not an airline; it's an IT company.

[Tolip]

These new pay scales are horrible, with the change of the WSP program, it actually looks like year over year pilots will actually be taking a pay CUT, because I honestly cannot understand what they have written for the WSP section, it seems unsettlingly confusing and not written well. These new pay scales will have 737 year one FOs TAKING home 62K a year... that is horrible, it will take a WJ FO 5 years to earn a livable wage with the company. A 15.5 % raise is just a match for inflation, and then with 2% year over year for the remainder of the contract, by its end pilots will be SUFFERInG all over again. The number one priority of any contract negotiations HAS to be wages, and this contract does nothing for that.Thia will still have new FOs eating at food banks. Shame on alpa for accepting these rates, they had a mandate to close the gap with the north american standard contract, this does not do that. And I hope to god WJ know there worth enough to vote this down.

[Nashbandicoot]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

[Tolip]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

[throwawaycorporate]

Based on my quick calculations, the posted rates look to include the 9.1%. If it was 15.5% the numbers would be quite a bit lower. The 10% pension contribution is entirely separate.

I think you’re right

Current/Old: $64.92 * 1.20 = $77.90
Proposed/new: $81.81 * 1.10 = $89.99

For exactly a 15.5% lift

[Blackdog0301]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

Your understanding of this TA is about as pathetic as your ability to form proper sentences.

[Tolip]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

Your understanding of this TA is about as pathetic as your ability to form proper sentences.

I'm not attacking anyone personally. Im sharing my thoughts on this new TA, just like everyone else. Stop spending your energies on petty attacks. And if something I've said is against your understanding of the contract, please elaborate. If not, good day.

[maverick12]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

There is a MASSIVE pilot deficit in canada, no pilot needs to worry about not having space to fly.. quite the contrary we need to worry that we are flying TOO much, and get relief from over working. And get PAID for our work, this AIP is a complete waste of the best negotiating power we have had in I dont even know how long.. and what did they secure? Kill off swoop... in THREE years? Which honestly who knows what will even happen there.. meanwhile pilots are still eating at food banks and living with their parents until they get to year 5 FO pay..its disgraceful. our new pay scales bearly beat Flairs, that is actually crazy that the WJ union with all that was said over the last several months accepted a bare minimum inflationary adjustment, that is essentially the exact same as flair. Matching flairs contract should ha e been the STARTING point for negotiations.. and WJ alpa only managed to get a MATCH after 9 months of negotiations.. how..? Like actually, how does that happen.

WJ pilots eating at food banks with their wages? Yeah I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 3 dollars. And if they did, I’m calling incredibly poor financial sense in their part. Also Swoop is gone by next year, not 4 years. Read the AIP properly or don’t both posting such drivel, it’s embarrassing. And get your PPL in the meantime.

[thepoors]

Pay scale

Still 77.5 mmg?

[RockSalty]

Pay scale

Still 77.5 mmg?

Yes

[stall]

The wages don't matter without scope. It doesn't matter if you make 400/hr when someone else is doing your flying

WJ pilots eating at food banks with their wages? Yeah I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 3 dollars. And if they did, I’m calling incredibly poor financial sense in their part. Also Swoop is gone by next year, not 4 years. Read the AIP properly or don’t both posting such drivel, it’s embarrassing. And get your PPL in the meantime.

The 4 hrs duty credit is industry worst and will still be industry worst in 2026 at 4.25 is embarrassing

And getting paid 50% to deadhead? Industry worst

Can someone name a profession where your employer makes you do something at work and then pays you 50%?

[Torontomaplelaughs]

WJ pilots eating at food banks with their wages? Yeah I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 3 dollars. And if they did, I’m calling incredibly poor financial sense in their part. Also Swoop is gone by next year, not 4 years. Read the AIP properly or don’t both posting such drivel, it’s embarrassing. And get your PPL in the meantime.

The 4 hrs duty credit is industry worst and will still be industry worst in 2026 at 4.25 is embarrassing

And getting paid 50% to deadhead? Industry worst

Can someone name a profession where your employer makes you do something at work and then pays you 50%?

Yikes...is everyone blocked 16 days non-stop then with these scheduling parameters?

[RockSalty]

WJ pilots eating at food banks with their wages? Yeah I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 3 dollars. And if they did, I’m calling incredibly poor financial sense in their part. Also Swoop is gone by next year, not 4 years. Read the AIP properly or don’t both posting such drivel, it’s embarrassing. And get your PPL in the meantime.

The 4 hrs duty credit is industry worst and will still be industry worst in 2026 at 4.25 is embarrassing

And getting paid 50% to deadhead? Industry worst

Can someone name a profession where your employer makes you do something at work and then pays you 50%?

Yikes...is everyone blocked 16 days non-stop then with these scheduling parameters?

With our duty (1:2) and trip (1:4) rigs you're not seeing 4 hours credit unless you're Doing less than 8 hours duty on a single day pairing

[Tony Soprano]

WJ pilots eating at food banks with their wages? Yeah I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 3 dollars. And if they did, I’m calling incredibly poor financial sense in their part. Also Swoop is gone by next year, not 4 years. Read the AIP properly or don’t both posting such drivel, it’s embarrassing. And get your PPL in the meantime.

The 4 hrs duty credit is industry worst and will still be industry worst in 2026 at 4.25 is embarrassing

And getting paid 50% to deadhead? Industry worst

Can someone name a profession where your employer makes you do something at work and then pays you 50%?

I'm happy to take industry worst DH pay in exchange for more money than an AC WB skipper.

[rudder]

I'm happy to take industry worst DH pay in exchange for more money than an AC WB skipper.

Circa 2023? Questionable. 2024? 2025? 2026? AC will be way out ahead.

And that is how it should be. WJ moved the bar. AC needs to set a much higher bar.

[airbussy]

Everyone loves to point out that the new TA is better than the 320/737 and in most years the 787. And sure that's great, for now. But they fail to comprehend it's comparing to the END of a nearly 10 years shit cost neutral 2% deal. Within a year WJ will be well behind AC again. This was their chance to really get people to commit to WJ, but I imagine knowing that AC is going to be entering bargaining in the next month that the flow of pilots from WJ to AC won't stop and people will still jump ship now even with the shitty WAWCON at AC knowing things are only going up.

[Tony Soprano]

Within a year WJ will be well behind AC again.

I look forward to when AC will leapfrog us. I'm hoping Flair and Lynx will too. Pattern bargaining might finally be a thing

[FNGYYZ]

WJ pilots eating at food banks with their wages? Yeah I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 3 dollars. And if they did, I’m calling incredibly poor financial sense in their part. Also Swoop is gone by next year, not 4 years. Read the AIP properly or don’t both posting such drivel, it’s embarrassing. And get your PPL in the meantime.

The 4 hrs duty credit is industry worst and will still be industry worst in 2026 at 4.25 is embarrassing

And getting paid 50% to deadhead? Industry worst

Can someone name a profession where your employer makes you do something at work and then pays you 50%?

I'm happy to take industry worst DH pay in exchange for more money than an AC WB skipper.

AC 777 is $308 Day / $340 Night plus Nav ($11) & Overseas ($12)

WJ 737 is $280 & WJ 787 is $320

So no WJ pilots are not going to make more than AC 777 skippers on a rate that was negotiated in 2014

I absolutely would be embarrassed with 50% DH pay in my contract in 2023

[Tony Soprano]

AC 777 is $308 Day / $340 Night plus Nav ($11) & Overseas ($12)

WJ 737 is $280 & WJ 787 is $320

What's the hourly rate for the 787, A330, 767 freighter with all the nav pay etc? Honestly, I don't know.

So no WJ pilots are not going to make more than AC 777 skippers on a rate that was negotiated in 2014

Why are you working within a CA that is 10 years old?

[PositiveRate27]

Nav pay is paid for NB overseas flying only. The WB only gets the hourly Overseas premium of $13.27 for a CA and $7.24 for an FO and only when actually flying an overseas route.

The amount of Overseas/Nav pay a NB pilot will attract depends heavily on the fleet type, base and seniority. Currently the only NB fleet doing overseas flying is the 737 in YUL/YVR. Senior pilots can bid 100% of their flying to be overseas. Juniors cannot.

Current year 12 Air Canada rates:

777 CA / FO
307.79 Day / 340.26 Night plus $13.27 Overseas
199.09 Day / 218.08 Night plus $ 7.24 Overseas

787 CA / FO
281.36 Day / 313.82 Night plus $13.27 Overseas
183.63 Day / 202.62 Night plus $ 7.24 Overseas

737 CA / FO
220.83 Day / 249.51 Night plus $13.27 Overseas & $12.06 Nav
148.22 Day / 165.00 Night plus $ 7.24 Overseas & $ 6.03 Nav


Edited to add my favourite rates (not):

767F CA/FO
232.32 Day / 260.25 Night plus $13.27 Overseas
153.09 Day / 169.37 Night plus $ 7.24 Overseas

Old 767 CA/FO
258.23 Day / 289.17 Night plus $13.27 Overseas
170.10 Day / 188.19 Night plus $ 7.24 Overseas

We didn’t negotiate the new rate in 2014. We negotiated it in 2020 despite having the flying already scoped in article 1 of the collective agreement.

[Fanblade]

The 4 hrs duty credit is industry worst and will still be industry worst in 2026 at 4.25 is embarrassing

And getting paid 50% to deadhead? Industry worst

Can someone name a profession where your employer makes you do something at work and then pays you 50%?

I'm happy to take industry worst DH pay in exchange for more money than an AC WB skipper.

AC 777 is $308 Day / $340 Night plus Nav ($11) & Overseas ($12)

WJ 737 is $280 & WJ 787 is $320

So no WJ pilots are not going to make more than AC 777 skippers on a rate that was negotiated in 2014

I absolutely would be embarrassed with 50% DH pay in my contract in 2023

Who said he meant the 777?

AC 787 pays 297 half day night.
AC 767 Freight pays 246 half day night

WJ 737 pilots make $35/hour more than our 767 drivers.
On a day domestic flight WJ 787 Captains make $40/hour more than our 787 drivers
On a day domestic WJ 787 Captains make $12/hour more than our triple Captains.

The way you explain the rate. Like it was negotiated 10 years ago and hasn’t changed since. It is the 2023 rate negotiated 10 years ago with increases each year to today.

Our wages as a legacy are embarrassing. I wouldn’t be throwing stones about 50% DH.

[fish4life]

As much as I hope we pass WJ wages I hope it’s not the only thing we are focused on, give me WJ vacation +.5 / day. Enough of our absolute trash vacation

[bobcaygeon]

Exactly!

Having done my fair share of collective bargaining and resulting TA roadshows, I can describe the experience as follows:

Back in the days of paper TA’s being handed out - no matter how comprehensive or detailed all of the amendments were to the CBA - the sound in the room would be “flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip …….. silence”.

Every pilot in the room just flipped to page 17 which was the wage page.

Such is the nature of pilots. 80% will vote on how the wage package affects them individually. Most of the rest is just a detail but to the bargaining committee it represents months of their work and ultimately all matters, just not at a mortgage loan appointment.

Good luck to the WJ pilots.

I would be lying if I didn't say the only reason I want to see the wages, is to know if AC is going to have to pull out their wallet if this thing passes. And that effects me and 4700 other pilots at AC. So hoping for the best when it comes to final numbers released.

Spoken like true flight attendant........ "me too"