Denying Overtime

[Dockjock]

2000 cancellations ain’t overtime it’s poor planning. Weather is the lamest excuse ever for so much disruption, I have no idea how that continues to work. The network is planned with an ICAO standard atmosphere?

[Crewbunk]

Blind faith in ALPA being some messiah is laughable.

“ALPA” is just a name. The big change is the mentality of the pilots, allowing ALPA’s existence for AC’s pilots.

[QKZXKV]

Blind faith in ALPA being some messiah is laughable.

“ALPA” is just a name. The big change is the mentality of the pilots, allowing ALPA’s existence for AC’s pilots.

You're entitled to that view point... I hope you're not disappointed in the long run.

[flying4dollars]

Blind faith in ALPA being some messiah is laughable.

“ALPA” is just a name. The big change is the mentality of the pilots, allowing ALPA’s existence for AC’s pilots.

You're entitled to that view point... I hope you're not disappointed in the long run.

As you are to yours. But stating the change of mentality of the pilots isn't a viewpoint. It's a fact. You don't even have to work here to know that.

[Man_in_the_sky]

don't you think they removed it so you guys lose bargaining capital on ''winning'' them back over ?

Exactly!

And with 2000 cancellations and delays over the long weekend, wasn’t that a good idea?

The mood of the present MEC is that there will be no bargaining capital. There will be no concessions “traded”.

you mean, they assume they won't be getting a much better contract than the actual ? Or i read that wrong

[fish4life]

The biggest shift is the near 50/50 TB VS DB pilots. For years we have been held back by the DB pilots who never wanted to rock the boat too hard or hurt the company. Luckily most TB pilots I’ve talked to don’t give a shit and if we need to shut the place down for a week to get the pay raises we need we will do it.

[Dockjock]

Agree with your assumption on DB. When I started it boggled my mind how much people- even very junior people- talked about the pension the pension. It’s all pensionable time (which didn’t make any sense under DB but does now, ironically). Living life to retire.

No surprise pay, quality of life, vacation, benefits, all of it suffered all in service of keeping the holy pension. Even more ironically it seems that was the one thing keeping a lid on the other costs. Now that it’s gone…yeah.

[bobcaygeon]

Exactly!

And with 2000 cancellations and delays over the long weekend, wasn’t that a good idea?

The mood of the present MEC is that there will be no bargaining capital. There will be no concessions “traded”.

you mean, they assume they won't be getting a much better contract than the actual ? Or i read that wrong

ALPA/ACPA, it doesn't really matter if the faces and attitudes at the top don't change.

ALPA Canada and ALPA National (US) generally take turns muddying and/or complicating what was a pretty straight forward discussion at the table face to face.

[RippleRock]

Exactly!

And with 2000 cancellations and delays over the long weekend, wasn’t that a good idea?

The mood of the present MEC is that there will be no bargaining capital. There will be no concessions “traded”.

AC proves time and time again they don't care what happens just that the managing genrals get their way.

Blind faith in ALPA being some messiah is laughable.

I don't think anyone has "blind faith" in anything. That denotes a level of naivity that borders on stupid.

Most of us know we have a part to play and we are doing our share. Yes, there are a few that have massive bills, and a few others that are just plain greedy and can't resist feeding at a full VO trough. I've heard they are known, every single one....not sure what that means.

There's a seismic shift happening in WACON all over North America. Most of the FO's I fly with will be damned before they give in to anything substandard. It's a wait and see game right now. All I know for sure is I'm having the best summer I've had in a decade. It's a relief not the chasing the "VO dragon".

There's way more to life. Swilling pints on the deck sitting beside the barbeque reconnecting with my family will become less frequent again when we have an "overdue, deserved" contract and proper hourly rates........but not today, and that's fine with me.

[Ash Ketchum]

If the new contract is anything less than historic, many recent hire FOs will be taking their talents elsewhere. In a global pilot shortage, there is no justification for 4 years of flat pay.

[flyingcanuck]

If the new contract is anything less than historic, many recent hire FOs will be taking their talents elsewhere. In a global pilot shortage, there is no justification for 4 years of flat pay.

as one of those, I will be very depressed if I don't see a change in lifestyle/pay. Looks bleak when I think about 30+ years of living like this, lifestyle-wise.

[Fanblade]

And with 2000 cancellations and delays over the long weekend, wasn’t that a good idea?

The mood of the present MEC is that there will be no bargaining capital. There will be no concessions “traded”.

you mean, they assume they won't be getting a much better contract than the actual ? Or i read that wrong

ALPA/ACPA, it doesn't really matter if the faces and attitudes at the top don't change.

ALPA Canada and ALPA National (US) generally take turns muddying and/or complicating what was a pretty straight forward discussion at the table face to face.

Bobcaygeon

Whole sale change at the top.

Muddying or just far more willing to go to impasse?

Man in the sky,

He means we have no more blood to give. No more trading away our QOL in exchange for a raise. No more cost neutral bargaining where we are expected to trade something of equal value to attain a gain somewhere else. Like last years MOA.

That era is over.

[CPU2000]

Agree with your assumption on DB. When I started it boggled my mind how much people- even very junior people- talked about the pension the pension. It’s all pensionable time (which didn’t make any sense under DB but does now, ironically). Living life to retire.

No surprise pay, quality of life, vacation, benefits, all of it suffered all in service of keeping the holy pension. Even more ironically it seems that was the one thing keeping a lid on the other costs. Now that it’s gone…yeah.

+1

Always makes me laugh when the old "well at least we still have a pension!" is spoken from a 777C when US Airlines come up

Totally clueless on the massive uplift US Airlines have been negotiating in the past 5 years and massive higher payment you will get from 18% company paid contributions

They think they may have "saved" their pensions, but they now have an inferior alternate pension for over half the pilots. Good luck getting massive gains when over half are substantially behind in calculated annuities

[alkaseltzer]

If the new contract is anything less than historic, many recent hire FOs will be taking their talents elsewhere. In a global pilot shortage, there is no justification for 4 years of flat pay.

as one of those, I will be very depressed if I don't see a change in lifestyle/pay. Looks bleak when I think about 30+ years of living like this, lifestyle-wise.

6000 pilots to be hired...wondering what they're budgeting for the last 2000+pilots...

[Dias]

There's a couple of things in the contract, or the law, that pilots aren't availing themselves of:
Special Days Off (SDO)
Family Responsibility Leave (FRL)

These are both readily available upon request. Use them if you need them! That's what they're there for. You don't need to feel any guilt.

[flyingcanuck]

There's a couple of things in the contract, or the law, that pilots aren't availing themselves of:
Special Days Off (SDO)
Family Responsibility Leave (FRL)

These are both readily available upon request. Use them if you need them! That's what they're there for. You don't need to feel any guilt.

the problem is they both need ot be approved by a manager, and depending on which one it can be a hassle

[Canadaflyer46]

There's a couple of things in the contract, or the law, that pilots aren't availing themselves of:
Special Days Off (SDO)
Family Responsibility Leave (FRL)

These are both readily available upon request. Use them if you need them! That's what they're there for. You don't need to feel any guilt.

the problem is they both need ot be approved by a manager, and depending on which one it can be a hassle

Even at WJ I haven't heard of any bite back over taking personal days. They're part of the Canada Labour Code. Our guidance from ALPA over here has been to stick to the verbatim reason from the CLC, and avoid giving any extra details.

[Rowdy]

Exactly!

And with 2000 cancellations and delays over the long weekend, wasn’t that a good idea?

The mood of the present MEC is that there will be no bargaining capital. There will be no concessions “traded”.

AC proves time and time again they don't care what happens just that the managing genrals get their way.

Blind faith in ALPA being some messiah is laughable.

Half the AC list is 'new' and won't be pushed around...

You fine folk will have lots of unity, especially when it comes to turning the tables on a 'proper' increase and positive changes to the contract.

There is already work afoot south of the 49th that will massively undermine the AC managements attempts to keep wages low by allowing canucks into their ranks in the US.

ACPA was a complete dumpster fire.

[Ash Ketchum]

And with 2000 cancellations and delays over the long weekend, wasn’t that a good idea?

The mood of the present MEC is that there will be no bargaining capital. There will be no concessions “traded”.

AC proves time and time again they don't care what happens just that the managing genrals get their way.

Blind faith in ALPA being some messiah is laughable.

Half the AC list is 'new' and won't be pushed around...

You fine folk will have lots of unity, especially when it comes to turning the tables on a 'proper' increase and positive changes to the contract.

There is already work afoot south of the 49th that will massively undermine the AC managements attempts to keep wages low by allowing canucks into their ranks in the US.

ACPA was a complete dumpster fire.

Exactly, if I don't get what I want from the new contract I will quit as will many other recently hired AC pilots. I have zero loyalty to management and will go where the pay and WLB is best. If that means going to the US, so be it.

[cdnavater]

AC proves time and time again they don't care what happens just that the managing genrals get their way.

Blind faith in ALPA being some messiah is laughable.

Half the AC list is 'new' and won't be pushed around...

You fine folk will have lots of unity, especially when it comes to turning the tables on a 'proper' increase and positive changes to the contract.

There is already work afoot south of the 49th that will massively undermine the AC managements attempts to keep wages low by allowing canucks into their ranks in the US.

ACPA was a complete dumpster fire.

Exactly, if I don't get what I want from the new contract I will quit as will many other recently hired AC pilots. I have zero loyalty to management and will go where the pay and WLB is best. If that means going to the US, so be it.

Let’s be honest here, if you could you would already be there and the contract has zero to do with it! You and others could get exactly what you want and if the border opens, many will still go

[Fanblade]

Half the AC list is 'new' and won't be pushed around...

You fine folk will have lots of unity, especially when it comes to turning the tables on a 'proper' increase and positive changes to the contract.

There is already work afoot south of the 49th that will massively undermine the AC managements attempts to keep wages low by allowing canucks into their ranks in the US.

ACPA was a complete dumpster fire.

Exactly, if I don't get what I want from the new contract I will quit as will many other recently hired AC pilots. I have zero loyalty to management and will go where the pay and WLB is best. If that means going to the US, so be it.

Let’s be honest here, if you could you would already be there and the contract has zero to do with it! You and others could get exactly what you want and if the border opens, many will still go

For some. Most don’t leave home and family unless the gain is significant. If AC closed the gap to a reasonable point and the border opened I doubt they would have a mass exodus.

[schnitzel2k3]

Exactly, if I don't get what I want from the new contract I will quit as will many other recently hired AC pilots. I have zero loyalty to management and will go where the pay and WLB is best. If that means going to the US, so be it.

Let’s be honest here, if you could you would already be there and the contract has zero to do with it! You and others could get exactly what you want and if the border opens, many will still go

For some. Most don’t leave home and family unless the gain is significant. If AC closed the gap to a reasonable point and the border opened I doubt they would have a mass exodus.

That's on the order of what, 275-350k CAD at the top end as far as difference at any of the majors compared to AC on an average year.

That's an enormous delta, not factoring for lower federal and state taxation rates. Olive branch, healthcare could be a factor for some.

You are correct, likely lots wouldn't uproot for financial only, but there would be enough to put further stress on the industry here.

[RVR6000]

There are actually a handful of pilots that commute from the US. The switch over for them would be the easiest, however after 10-15 years at the company a lot of people can’t just walk away from seniority and start all over again.

[Tbayer2021]

Yeah, anyone that's serious about leaving isn't waiting to see what the new contract brings. It's not going to be anywhere close to US pay and you'd be silly to be giving up hundreds of seniority numbers in the meantime.

Exactly, if I don't get what I want from the new contract I will quit as will many other recently hired AC pilots.

This is what you tell yourself to justify kicking the can down the road a little longer till the new contract finally drops and say, "Well its not that bad". Meanwhile, its nowhere close to what you really wanted but you were never going to leave anyways. At least you got to pump your chest a few times though.

[Ash Ketchum]

Yeah, anyone that's serious about leaving isn't waiting to see what the new contract brings. It's not going to be anywhere close to US pay and you'd be silly to be giving up hundreds of seniority numbers in the meantime.

Exactly, if I don't get what I want from the new contract I will quit as will many other recently hired AC pilots.

This is what you tell yourself to justify kicking the can down the road a little longer till the new contract finally drops and say, "Well its not that bad". Meanwhile, its nowhere close to what you really wanted but you were never going to leave anyways. At least you got to pump your chest a few times though.

As a matter of fact I am working on my EB-2 NIW petition at the moment but due to my experience (or lack thereof) my lawyers says I may or may not get approved. If I do I will leave to the US regardless of what the new AC contract brings. If anyone has a more surefire way of getting to the US aside from the EB-2 NIW (not counting family or marriage) I am happy to learn. From my understanding none of the US airlines are willing to sponsor Canadians at this point.