I'm curious why when issued a SID with the clearance, after departure most of the time we are given vectors that parallel the SID? I've always scratched my head with that one, given that it appears leaving us on the SID would be less workload. Thanks to the ATC guys that answer.

PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:05 am Why isn’t 13/31 used anymore in YVR?

There are talks that YVR is considering decommissioning this runway altogether. It probably sees action once or twice a year when the winds really pick up from the south.

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/document ... .pdf?la=en

In a noise study for 2022, 13/31 use was a total of 0% (not an absolute zero), but so few times in the grand scheme of things. I imagine runway maintenance is quite expensive regardless of use.

Adam Oke wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:52 am I'm curious why when issued a SID with the clearance, after departure most of the time we are given vectors that parallel the SID?

Best guess at what you’re talking about is why the 15 degree turn on departure. At certain airports, an initial 15 degree turn off runway heading is considered separation and allows for aircraft behind to go without waiting for 3mi/1000’ IFR separation. The turn back to runway heading is likely done when IFR separation is achieved and you no longer need to fly the wrong way.

PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:05 am Why isn’t 13/31 used anymore in YVR?

It only gets used when the winds are strong enough to warrant it, which isn't often. Several carriers don't want to use it because of equipment, runway length, whatever their operating limitations are, so they want to land on an 8. Aircraft landing 13 cross 8L on approach and the pavement of 8R, so the operation is MUCH less efficient when 13 is in use.

Braun wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 10:14 am

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 10:53 am Yeah but that number is probably skewed by the number of overflights and transoceanic we handle in area control centres vs how few towered airports and terminal control areas we have.

It's like Canadian highways.. they may not be the widest, but they certainly are the longest!

Actually no. The busiest terminals in Canada on a busy day handle similar traffic levels to oceanic. Also, you’d be surprised how little staff some of these busy units are operating at. increasing controller workload by a lot compared to similarly sized US airports.

Sending and receiving CPDLC messages for occasional altitude changes oceanic vs doing the verbal zipper merge in terminal.

My point being that most of the aircraft Canada controls are the easiest ones to do so.

PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:05 am Why isn’t 13/31 used anymore in YVR?

It’s used….. as an exit lol.

Departed southern Ontario for the west coast and had Toronto centre hold us at 260 due to staff shortage. It was 100+ miles before we got cleared up to 380. Is this a common thing?

PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:05 am Why isn’t 13/31 used anymore in YVR?

It's closed by notam, so it's not even an option. YVR and the major Operators understand that Rwy13 ops reduces the arrival and departure rate to less than acceptable levels.

As for North runway departures, even outside of the noise abatement it was tried for some time around the time of the Olympics and was found to again reduce both the arrival and departure rates to less than desirable levels while greatly increasing workload and complexity mainly due to the airport layout as well as airspace constraints.

Donald wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:25 pm Departed southern Ontario for the west coast and had Toronto centre hold us at 260 due to staff shortage. It was 100+ miles before we got cleared up to 380. Is this a common thing?

Yup. Early descents too and even final FL capped at 230 for turboprops sometimes. Thanks NavCanada.

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:25 am

Braun wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 10:14 am

‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 10:53 am Yeah but that number is probably skewed by the number of overflights and transoceanic we handle in area control centres vs how few towered airports and terminal control areas we have.

It's like Canadian highways.. they may not be the widest, but they certainly are the longest!

Actually no. The busiest terminals in Canada on a busy day handle similar traffic levels to oceanic. Also, you’d be surprised how little staff some of these busy units are operating at. increasing controller workload by a lot compared to similarly sized US airports.

Sending and receiving CPDLC messages for occasional altitude changes oceanic vs doing the verbal zipper merge in terminal.

My point being that most of the aircraft Canada controls are the easiest ones to do so.

It’s a very simplistic view and you’re entitled to your opinion even though I disagree with your statement.

Mr. North wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:28 pmFor example.. Numerous times heading into YVR. Area controllers tell me to slow down or speed up, only to switch to arrival and they tell me to do the complete opposite? WTF?

The area controller has his planes to sequence and the TCU then has to integrate that sequence with his own sequence. Hence the speed fluctuations from one sector to the next. That's just the way the system is built. TBO will change all that, but that's not happening anytime soon.

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/our-strateg ... tions.aspx

Mr. North wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:28 pmOverall general flight handling has deteriorated in the last few years. Fly into the US it's a totally different world (they move metal). Why? Wasn't always like this...

...they also come very close to hitting metal lately !

The FAA separates runway incursions by category:

Category A (collision narrowly avoided),
Category B (significant potential for collision),
Category C (ample time or distance to avoid collision),
Category D (no immediate safety consequences).

Here's a list of mostly A's and B's in a span of 3 months last year, some of which were due to lack of proper ATC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ts_in_2023

In 2023, there were 21 serious (categories A and B) runway incursions or near misses in the US, according to FAA data, the most since 2007.

Bottom line, the FAA has the same issue as us: staffing. They try to backfill with mandatory overtime, and you see the results.

Yes, the situation at YVR is bad. Hopefully it will get better. However, safety needs to come first. End of discussion.