AVIA---CORPAC---AIRPRINT.........????
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
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Flaps 1 Billion
- Rank 3
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- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:32 am
I am just curious as to why multi is better when compared to Pilatus time.
This aircraft seems to break the mould in what a single would do. The highly intelligent "Wanker" comment above has not swayed me yet.
What is the problem with making a well performing PC-12 Captain the captain of a Mulit Engine aircraft?
I do recogonize that time on type is important. With a proper line indoc, I do not see the problem.
Pinky
This aircraft seems to break the mould in what a single would do. The highly intelligent "Wanker" comment above has not swayed me yet.
What is the problem with making a well performing PC-12 Captain the captain of a Mulit Engine aircraft?
I do recogonize that time on type is important. With a proper line indoc, I do not see the problem.
Pinky
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Vref plus 10
- Rank 2
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No you guys are right, there shouldn't be a problem with a good experienced PC12 capt going on a twin. Really no difference till an engine quits, which should never happen.
And with a good line-indoc, no problem. But who's going to line indoc these guys? Another PC12 capt...?
I just can't see why any of the Corpac guys would or will go to sprint.
This whole event has been hanlded so poorly, that I hope none of these Corpac guys go over just to prove a point.
And with a good line-indoc, no problem. But who's going to line indoc these guys? Another PC12 capt...?
I just can't see why any of the Corpac guys would or will go to sprint.
This whole event has been hanlded so poorly, that I hope none of these Corpac guys go over just to prove a point.
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pc12driver
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garretdude
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P-180 Reality
I'd like to say that "onezerotenthousand" hit the nail on the head with the claim that the P-180 is good for the 500 mile trips and leave the PC-12's for the 3000'strips. A lot of truth in those thoughts.
Some of the things for the aspiring PC-12 drivers who want to go on the Piagio is the reality that it's speeds are signifcantly faster on approach and take off's. Also the AFM is overly optimisitic in what it can do on take off distance and because it opperates under CARS 703, it doesn't have to meet Balanced Field Lenghts which makes it a bit of a risky deal on short strips. The Vr is 106 and consider that the Vmca without a functioning auto-feather is 128, there is a huge potential for a disaster if it doesn't function because flight path direction and control would be utterly impossible should a fan stop at this critical phase of flight without autofeather. If one were to look at the accelerate stop distance they would discover it needs more than 4000' of runway, so it's not a "bush machine" at all, dispite the fact that some sales people think it is.
This machine is fun to fly, but significant practice on V1 cuts should be had to realize what a handful it can be when an engine quits at slow speed. It takes every ounce or rudder pressure you can muster up to get it flying straight. So to any single engine PC-12 driver, you'll find it quite an unforgiving aircraft if you're not well practiced on single engine stuff. Line indoc and good training are two different things as you don't practice single engine stuff with people in the back, so training is everything. Line indoc: get used to balancing fuel vs. payload as this aircarft can't carry more than 6 people (winter weights) without exceeding the Max ZFW, and if you take off with 6 people and fuel that brings you up to Max TOW, you better fly for close to an hour (350 miles) or you'll exceed the Max Landing Weight. This machine is challenging on training as well as out flying the line. It's a fun machine but it can bite you if you're not paying attention to the numbers.
Good luck with it Pilatus drivers.
As for Corpac, great company with some awesome people. A few people slammed them on this forum, but I think second hand gossip is crap and benieth our professional dignity.
Some of the things for the aspiring PC-12 drivers who want to go on the Piagio is the reality that it's speeds are signifcantly faster on approach and take off's. Also the AFM is overly optimisitic in what it can do on take off distance and because it opperates under CARS 703, it doesn't have to meet Balanced Field Lenghts which makes it a bit of a risky deal on short strips. The Vr is 106 and consider that the Vmca without a functioning auto-feather is 128, there is a huge potential for a disaster if it doesn't function because flight path direction and control would be utterly impossible should a fan stop at this critical phase of flight without autofeather. If one were to look at the accelerate stop distance they would discover it needs more than 4000' of runway, so it's not a "bush machine" at all, dispite the fact that some sales people think it is.
This machine is fun to fly, but significant practice on V1 cuts should be had to realize what a handful it can be when an engine quits at slow speed. It takes every ounce or rudder pressure you can muster up to get it flying straight. So to any single engine PC-12 driver, you'll find it quite an unforgiving aircraft if you're not well practiced on single engine stuff. Line indoc and good training are two different things as you don't practice single engine stuff with people in the back, so training is everything. Line indoc: get used to balancing fuel vs. payload as this aircarft can't carry more than 6 people (winter weights) without exceeding the Max ZFW, and if you take off with 6 people and fuel that brings you up to Max TOW, you better fly for close to an hour (350 miles) or you'll exceed the Max Landing Weight. This machine is challenging on training as well as out flying the line. It's a fun machine but it can bite you if you're not paying attention to the numbers.
Good luck with it Pilatus drivers.
As for Corpac, great company with some awesome people. A few people slammed them on this forum, but I think second hand gossip is crap and benieth our professional dignity.
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sprucemonkey
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:31 pm
What all you mud slingers don't understand is the piaggio is a plane that must me flown with great respect. It ain't a craft that you can rub like a puss and she's puddy in your hands. SHE dictates what goes down. I've got 2500hrs in a PC12, 1000hrs in a P180, and 550 in a Da 50, as well as many other piston/turbine twins. The pizza was the most difficult to control. Don't even bring up the 3000' strips! ( I think i still have FFST's seat stuck in my ass after that famous summer Invermere flight.)
So; the salary should be the same for the boys if not raised. You make 60g's as capt'n on the excel.....you're getting ripped off bro! I make WAY more than you and my job consists of making sure the plane has enough water and wine 8 days a month. (no offence BMAC) Like air diddles says, don't hate the playa, hate the manaJaa.
I'm also updating my dj list after the Habs game tomorrow night........
So; the salary should be the same for the boys if not raised. You make 60g's as capt'n on the excel.....you're getting ripped off bro! I make WAY more than you and my job consists of making sure the plane has enough water and wine 8 days a month. (no offence BMAC) Like air diddles says, don't hate the playa, hate the manaJaa.
I'm also updating my dj list after the Habs game tomorrow night........
Sure did,I have talked with a few of the AS guys and they still dont know a whole lot about ops for the P.180's.The birds offer good range and nice performance,so they should fit in well with some of the airsprint clients.As said before the trips to YQU,YMM etc,hardly show what these airplanes are capable of.
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Dusty 3
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- Location: The trailer park beside Sunnyvale.
I flew STP into YEG today for fuel today. We were there cause we couldn't go from YYC to Elk Point and back to Calgary with six guys.
Pathetic.
Yeah it cruises fast for a turbo prop, but it will burn 900lbs an hour until you are up above FL330 (which will take you 20 minutes to get there) That doesn't get you very far when you only have 2000lbs gas.
I've taken these airplanes on lengthly legs, and I'll tell you this. It straight up sucks. No other way to put it.
You can't go direct Toronto. (have to stop 800 half way for fuel)
You can't go direct a southern state. (can only get to Denver, barely)
You can't put six guys in the plane and fly direct Fort Nelson from Calgary.
You are always fuel critical.
You Ref at a min of 117 as long as you have not attracted ice. other wise your up at flaps mid with REF near 140kts. How pleasant when you have to land at a 3400ft strip. I actually do enjoy that part.
So, the P180 needs to only take one PAX. to make it really efficient for flight planning.
If your looking to buy a piaggio, you should be looking to buy a Jet.
It's not a Calgary to Elk Point machine. It's good for Calgary to Vancouver type legs. Have fun with it Sprint, cause it's totally the wrong plane.
-edited cause for horrible spelling, and I misworded something. oops.
Pathetic.
Yeah it cruises fast for a turbo prop, but it will burn 900lbs an hour until you are up above FL330 (which will take you 20 minutes to get there) That doesn't get you very far when you only have 2000lbs gas.
I've taken these airplanes on lengthly legs, and I'll tell you this. It straight up sucks. No other way to put it.
You can't go direct Toronto. (have to stop 800 half way for fuel)
You can't go direct a southern state. (can only get to Denver, barely)
You can't put six guys in the plane and fly direct Fort Nelson from Calgary.
You are always fuel critical.
You Ref at a min of 117 as long as you have not attracted ice. other wise your up at flaps mid with REF near 140kts. How pleasant when you have to land at a 3400ft strip. I actually do enjoy that part.
So, the P180 needs to only take one PAX. to make it really efficient for flight planning.
If your looking to buy a piaggio, you should be looking to buy a Jet.
It's not a Calgary to Elk Point machine. It's good for Calgary to Vancouver type legs. Have fun with it Sprint, cause it's totally the wrong plane.
-edited cause for horrible spelling, and I misworded something. oops.
Last edited by Dusty 3 on Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sprint isn't stupid, they will find the right runs to put the P180 on, and they'll make money doing it. They now have an advantage of using a PC12, an Excel or a Piaggio for a particular trip. It's all well and good talking about what they will do in the present, let's see how they're doing a few years down the road. Smart money says they'll continue to make a profit. Having multiple aircraft types and being able to fit the right plane for the trip, I think you'll be reading about Sprint and their success well into the next several years down the road. Only time will tell.
Last edited by short bus on Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sprucemonkey
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:31 pm
Would love to keep that up a few times per month.
