Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

Do you believe people are giving you a hard time because they know you as .
It would be highly unlikely that any flight instructors on this forum would know me personally seeing as the last time I was anywhere near a flight school in Canada was 17 years ago when I sold my school and the last time I flew commercially in Canada was 1995.

Regardless of the reason or reasons for my difficulties with the instructor group it really has no effect on my life one way or the other.

One of these days I am going to finish my Cub and do some float plane instructing with it....everything except the float plane rating that is.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by TC Aviator »

Hey Guys, . has been a great contributor to this forum with his straight-forward no BS approach to training. I have also spent many years working in the "real" world and find that today's "puppy-mill" flight schools seriously fall short of preparing new CPL pilots for work in this industry. The instructors coming out of those mills too often create a situation where the blind are leading the blind and are afforded little mentoring and supervision.

As for a TC review of flight training, I partially agree with Clunkdriver in that the bureaucracy will tend to bend over when encountering resistance to change from the "Alphabet Groups". The result would then likely be another lowering of standards and adherance to the flying club culture prevelent in many flight training venues.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by mcrit »

Cat, you know where I am and you know my number. So feel free to give me a call or drop by in person.

Someone made the comment that it takes an AME ~2000 hrs of training before he is allowed to teach other AMEs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture that, in my opinion, this may be so because fixing A/C is harder than flying them.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by 200hr Wonder »

mcrit wrote:Cat, you know where I am and you know my number. So feel free to give me a call or drop by in person.

Someone made the comment that it takes an AME ~2000 hrs of training before he is allowed to teach other AMEs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture that, in my opinion, this may be so because fixing A/C is harder than flying them.
Well any idiot can take a part off, put on a new one and call it done. The real skill lies in the troubleshooting. Same with piloting, any idiot can take off go somewhere and land again, the real skill lies in problem solving and decision making. So no I don't think that fixing a plane is any easier or harder than flying them.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by BoostedNihilist »

Someone made the comment that it takes an AME ~2000 hrs of training before he is allowed to teach other AMEs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and venture that, in my opinion, this may be so because fixing A/C is harder than flying them.

I don't disagree..

I was speaking in terms of an automotive mechanic

I believe that generally speaking people think pilots are more qualified than mechanics (if you didn't know better)

I have great respect for AME's and Mechanics BTW
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by mcrit »

Hey 200, I see where you are coming from when you say that the skill lies in the trouble shooting, and I agree. I would submit that there is a lot more to trouble shooting an engine than there is to trouble shooting an approach. I'm just going on personal experience. I've never found flying too difficult, but fixing engines sometimes still leaves me scratching my head, and I'm no ludite (I've built robots from scratch, as in machined the parts from raw metal and designed/etched/soldered the electronics) Whenever I get within 10 feet of an engine with a wrench, said engine starts to develop an attitude. All I can say is that I tip my hat to AMEs.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Stick-Shaker »

I came from an instructor background, and found myself in the bush. To be honest I have come across a few bush drivers that have tried to kill me, and some that were far better pilots than I. Former instructors were all mainly well organized and disciplined, they can speak on the radio in an IFR environment, and fly the dials well.

Both backgrounds bring something to the table, but I think flying the bush can be more "fun" and something that you will always look back on with great memories.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by North Shore »

If . is such a crappy instructor compared to the
gods here, why does he earn 10x as much for his
instruction as the gods?
If my info is correct, Cat is instructing people how to fly Cansos. There are a few reasons, mostly related to supply and demand, for that being a much more lucrative gig (perhaps even 10x as much) than some poor 350hr guy flogging around the circuit in the right seat of a 152. If the world was beating a path to Cat's door to ask him to teach ab-initio for $200/hr istructor fee, then the financial argument makes sense; if not, it's simply a willy-waving red herring.


the so called laws of learning as TC used to call them are interesting ideas to read and maybe take into consideration, however teaching ab-inition flying does not require a doctorate in psychiatry, all you really need is common sense and the ability to demonstrate things and instill confidence in the student to mimic what you have just demonstrated....then know when they have it and move on to the next lesson.
Actually, Cat, the psychobabble that you are decrying is simply the theory behind what makes a good instructor. I would suspect that, if you (Cat) are instructing people successfully, then you are applying those laws without even knowing it. However, I'd further suspect that is because you've had many years of life experience to bring to bear on the subject. If I were in my early 20's (is that a fair assumption of the average age of Canadian flight instructors?), I might not have that experience - and thus have to be taught it. A fair analogy, I think, is Orville and Wilbur (not trying to draw any age parallels here :wink: ) I'm sure that they had no idea about the physics equations behind the Flyer - but it worked! People came along later, filled in all of the theory that O&W already knew intuitively, and used that theory to deepen everyone's understanding of the subject.

The other thing about how Flight Instruction is now handled and taught, is that you need some sort of system for grading the instructor candidates, and making sure that each one is up to the required standard. Thus the basics of the learning factors, etc.. If you didn't have that system, then how would you ensure a consistent standard? ( I don't really want to open the can of worms here of how high/low that standard is set!)

Not trying to be critical, or pick sides here...just a few observations.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

Thanks for pointing all that stuff out to me North Shore, I had no idea that was the way it works......you see when I was an instructor we didn't have any standards and our instructors ratings were just handed out to us with no need to know anything about how to teach.

Same when I owned a flying school, I had no idea about all that stuff because all I had to do was check that my employees had their instructors ratings and that guaranteed they had been trained to meet the standard.

If my info is correct, Cat is instructing people how to fly Cansos. There are a few reasons, mostly related to supply and demand, for that being a much more lucrative gig
By the way I do teach in more than Canso's as you Canadians call a Catalina.

When I do other types of flying my rate usually is higher....then again most of my flying is in the specialized field of aviation.
If the world was beating a path to Cat's door to ask him to teach ab-initio for $200/hr istructor fee, then the financial argument makes sense; if not, it's simply a willy-waving red herring.
willy-waving huh? want to know something, I truly don't give a fu.k what you think for the simple reason you are not the one paying me.

Here is some free advice, if you want to earn decent money you find a niche area of flying that pays top dollar, I find the best paying job out there is flying for the movie industry.

So there you go, pick up the phone and tell them you want to fly for them.

Nothing to it. :rolleyes:
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by sez »

looks like this thread will be on first page for a very very long time....
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by North Shore »

Cat, I'm not quite sure why you are getting all hot under the collar here, as I wasn't trying to take a shot at you.

The original quote was:
If . is such a crappy instructor compared to the
gods here, why does he earn 10x as much for his
instruction as the gods?
Simple economics - lots of 172 guys, few people specialized in Catalinas etc.., but not the apples-to-apples, 172 to 172 comparison being implied in the quote.
Here is some free advice, if you want to earn decent money you find a niche area of flying that pays top dollar
Thanks. I will.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

looks like this thread will be on first page for a very very long time....
Naw sez, it will end quite soon so enjoy it while it lasts.

Once this is finished the flight training forum can go back to normal and there will be no negativity because they can stroke each other with warm fuzzies and feel good stuff. :smt040

I'll just have to find some other form of entertainment. :mrgreen:
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Wacko »

I say at least 7 pages.... I can't argue either way for Chucks abilities as an instructor or pilot but I can vouch for his ability to turn any thread into a controversy :smt040
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

Wacko, you are missing the point.

This thread is about my being an instructor basher.

Therefore it stands to reason that I am not really an instructor.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by sez »

Naw sez, it will end quite soon so enjoy it while it lasts.

Once this is finished the flight training forum can go back to normal and there will be no negativity because they can stroke each other with warm fuzzies and feel good stuff.

I'll just have to find some other form of entertainment.
Actually Cat I'm already enjoying...
Cat, under ths thread there are 10 people at most who are talking negatively about you.
So, not my bussines but I can not comprehend why you are talking about not writing on ths forum.
thus far, you are being very contributing for whom are seeking useful informations...
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

sez, if you want my advice or opinion on something to do with flying all you need to do is PM me.

When I get a chance I will try and give you an answer....that way it will be easier because it will be one on one.

. E.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by TC Guy »

Cat Driver wrote:And another plus that this may bring with me out of the mix here after this thread runs its self out which will be soon, TC Guy can come back and be among admirers who won't insult him.
Naw, Cat... I learn some and chuckle some at your posts -- I always find them interesting. I hope you continue to post in this forum.

As for me... I just found it counter-productive to hold a discussion with you as you did not seem to be able participate in a discussion without it degenerating into a "bash-fest".

You are unable or unwilling to rationally discuss things with me. I get it. Took me a while (I am a TC Inspector, after all)... :)

-Guy
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »


You are unable or unwilling to rationally discuss things with me. I get it. Took me a while (I am a TC Inspector, after all)... :)
There are other principals in this industry besides the principals ( Laws )of learning or whatever you call them now in your instructors guide TC Guy.

There is also the principal of cause and effect.

You post under the umbrella of TCCA, therefore I identify you with the group who took away my " right " to work in the sector of flying that I chose in Canada.

The effect of what you call " bashing " for me it is not bashing it is nothing more or less than my revulsion for your employer.

Remember I did nothing against the system to deserve being banned from working in the country I am a citizen of.

What I was guilty of was following the instructions in CAR's when I asked for help from TCCA to correct a problem TCCA had with a rogue inspector.

And that TC Guy is the root problem I have with you....you represent a system that protects those who are guilty of abuse of power by attacking the abused.

So if you have a real problem with my attitude all you need do to show the troops here that you are their friend is to prove my allegations to be false.

Otherwise they may connect the dots and figure out if TC can screw one member of the aviation community they could be next.

It is really that simple TC Guy.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Hedley »

Not everyone loves you and I as much as they really should, . :wink:
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

Unfortunately Hedley this has nothing to do with love it is a matter of a regulator with no moral compass led by moral degenerates at the top.

I couldn't care less what some anonymous poster who calls himself TC Guy thinks about me for the simple reason he does not exist in my world.

If he was really genuinely concerned he would not be posting behind a made up name, he would give his opinions like we do.....and not from under the rock of anonymity.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by trey kule »

Ah Hedley, I think you are all turned around on this.

Who could not love and respect someone who continually posts how much they get paid an hour.....and who could not love and respect someone who continually explains so clearly to everyone how much experience they have...

And just what does TC guy bring to the table? An impartial informed opinion. A rather balanced view of his employer
Pfffft. How can someone respect that when they can enjoy continual TC and Instructor putdowns.

I suspect that many of the new (and older, experienced pilots) give Cat all the respect he so rightfully deserves.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by xsbank »

Here ., you can use this - I sent it to him on another thread but he ignored it so I've got it handy on my desktop in case he gets in again. You can use it as much as you'd like.

To T.K.:
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

I'm not to sure exactly where T K really sits on some of this stuff.

There was a time when he was not exactly enamoured of TCCA.
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by TC Guy »

Cat Driver wrote:There was a time when he was not exactly enamoured of TCCA.
A great deal of the time I am not exactly enamoured with the TCCA. I would be surprised if anyone was!

It is the system we have, and I work within it to help as best I can, and even improve it when given the chance.

-Guy
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Re: Cat Driver: I am tired of your instructor bashing

Post by Cat Driver »

A great deal of the time I am not exactly enamoured with the TCCA. I would be surprised if anyone was!

It is the system we have, and I work within it to help as best I can, and even improve it when given the chance.
For that you deserve credit, however as these bureaucracies grow ever bigger they also become more resistant to being changed from the bottom up.

Unless you are in the very top management you are very unlikely to bring about change in the system its self, but for sure you can make it far, far better for your individual clients.

I feel that having worked for decades within the system and directly for the system I got to know the top management very well. Well enough I can describe several of their top management as moral degenerates without fear that they will take me to court to defend my opinion...even though I would be delighted to defend my opinion with their own documentation.

I know the system well enough to have bet my company on the fact that the system will grind anyone into dust if you try and take on the very top management when you find they are operating outside of their legal envelope.

I did and they did exactly that because they are a law unto their own......a morally corrupt law unto their own.

Anyhow TC Guy I hope you can help as many as you can because it will make their life easier.

Best you and I just leave it at that because it serves no useful purpose for us to go any further with this and you can take it to the bank I will not get involved in any way in this flight training forum once this thread is finished.

I really have very little in common with the flight training industry today, in fact the gap between me and the FTU sector is far to wide to even try and bridge.

So once again if you can make life better for your clients that is something you can take personal pride in....good luck and good bye.

. ..
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