Bring your kid to work day ( JFK ATC)

[spartacus]

I remember flying along one day a few years back on 'take your kid to work day' and was passed off to a new frequency by a little girl. "Contact Toronto Centre on XXX.XX" I thought it was the most awesome thing, and it put a smile on my face for the rest of the day.

this is just so ridiculous. And those of you crying about 'terrorists'....are you serious? Wow. Programming complete.

[Hedley]

We as a society must be vigilant about the exponential
growth of this "youth terrorism".

There is no doubt that all of the horrible people involved
in this heinous (I love that word - it makes me want to
write a limerick) crime will burn in hell for their sins
when they die.

However, between now and then, it is the responsibility
of all right-thinking people to be on guard against this
groundswell of youth terrorism.

Here is another terrible example of youth terrorism:

http://tinyurl.com/6csaod

[Dust Devil]

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. You're suggesting the FAA should implement a rule allowing untrained, unlicenced guests to issue ATC clearances and instructions over the radio at the discretion of the responsible controller?

Under direct supervision of a controller why not?

[cyeg66]

The media are reporting that not only the dad/controller has been suspended, but also his supervisor.

If they docked the controller's pay, did they at least pay the kid for his work? I think the kid's got a legitimate grievance...

...love to see how pilots would react to controllers talking that fast around here. They've got enough trouble keeping up right now. "Muss bee arr accenzzz"...

[Rockie]

I don't see how anything is blown out of proportion. If this hadn't been splashed all over the public it might have been handled internally with a memo saying don't anybody do it again, but that's not the case so the FAA has no choice but to publicly enforce their own rules. Aren't you the same guys who chastised them for not doing so when it comes to airline enforcement? What's the difference here?

Jeez, you would think he's been lined up against a wall and shot for cripes sake the way you guys are weeping for him. Do you think he didn't know his kid's not supposed to talk on the radio? He broke the rules, displayed poor judgement, and got caught. If he isn't prepared to stand at attention in front of his boss's desk and answer for it then maybe he shouldn't have done it.

[Snagmaster E]

Quote by Shytehawk on PPRuNe: "I just cannot believe my ears. An aircraft actually took off on the instructions of a child without verifying the clearance was genuime."

...With aviation frequency radios readily available to any nut/terrorist this sort of behaviour cannot be condoned. A few false calls could wreak havoc in a busy terminal area. This is apart from blocking a busy frequency with unnecessary verbiage. PPRuNers obviously understand the implications more than those on here.

I like the verifying part. How do you verify the real one? Code words? " Cleared to land, 'rosebud' Bravo bravo chicken in the henhouse'. Sometimes I though I was talking to a little girl, because the female controller had a very high voice. You'd never know it was a ... (overused word) Terrorist in the first place

People are freaking out about this waaaaaaaaaaaay too much. "Unnecessary verbiage?" Okay, then no more "hello's", "Goodbyes", "Thanks", etc. All unnecessary. Drop it all. Mindless robots to the rescue! (As an added safety feature, don't allow major hockey game scores to be broadcast)

The pilots didn't seem to care, so why should we? Dad probably had another headset on, and maybe even had the phrases written down. Who knows?

As well, any flight instructors out there? Did (or do) you allow kids to take the controls? They aren't licensed. Big deal. Who cares?

[Rockie]

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. You're suggesting the FAA should implement a rule allowing untrained, unlicenced guests to issue ATC clearances and instructions over the radio at the discretion of the responsible controller?

Under direct supervision of a controller why not?

Have you heard the word "liability" before? ATC frequencies are not used to play music and discuss male menopaus. They are used to issue clearances, instructions and ensure the safe flow of air traffic. In that regard it is no different than having your kid operate a crane on a contruction site around other people, or sit in the left seat of an A310 over Russia.

[yycflyguy]

or sit in the left seat of an A310 over Russia.

Come on Rockie. You must admit that is a stretch to equate a couple of clearances to allowing your kids actually control and ultimately crash an airliner with pax on board... or maybe you are discriminating against the younger, under 60, generation

[Rockie]

or sit in the left seat of an A310 over Russia.

Come on Rockie. You must admit that is a stretch to equate a couple of clearances to allowing your kids actually control and ultimately crash an airliner with pax on board... or maybe you are discriminating against the younger, under 60, generation

Do I think this kid would cause a crash? No.

What I'm talking about is liability and responsibility for enforcing the rules and regulations put in place. The FAA is required to do that. This guy knew the rules and did it anyway. Why is anybody surprised that the FAA would take action on it?

The FAA is not ever going to say it's OK for unqualified people to sit at an ATC console and directly communicate with aircraft and nor should they. That would be rather stupid don't you think?

So having been confronted with a blatant and very, VERY public case of this occurring just what do you think the FAA is going to do about it? Ignore it? From a liability standpoint that would be rather stupid and irresponsible as well.

[Troubleshot]

I don't see this as any more serious than me teaching a brand new apprentice how to change or rig a flight control....serious job? you bet, but am I going to let him do the job without supervision or guidence? hell no.

I see the argument Rockie is making but I still have no issue with this.

[OhKiE DoHkIe]

A lesson to the kids here. Everyone is watching, everyone is listening. Plan your day around that bit of advice.

Unfortunately, I suspect ATC visits will now be banned . What a lost opportunity to every niche in the aviation community. We could have learned something here from each other.

[Rockie]

I don't see this as any more serious than me teaching a brand new apprentice how to change or rig a flight control....serious job? you bet, but am I going to let him do the job without supervision or guidence? hell no.

Key word here is "apprentice". Having an apprentice change or rig a flight control under supervision is perfectly legal and acceptable. In fact there is no other way to do an apprenticeship. Air Traffic controllers have the same thing when they leave ATC school and arrive at their unit. They operate under the direct supervision of another controller until they complete their checkout.

Having your kid on the radio is not at all the same thing.

[cyeg66]

Unfortunately, I suspect ATC visits will now be banned . What a lost opportunity to every niche in the aviation community. We could have learned something here from each other.

Doubtful. Very doubtful. There's still a lot to learn for some folk.

[Prairie Chicken]

Talk about making a mountain over a molehill! Damn media! Give it a break! I just can't see the threat here. The crews didn't seem to have a problem with it. So dad did something that perhaps wasn't allowed--10 lashes with a wet noodle!

And what sort of 'licence' do trainees have to transmit clearances anyway?

[Wilbur]

Certainly the media has blown this out of all proportion, and no, the controller and supervisor ought not to be suspended over a fairly minor transgression from which the only consequence is public politics. However, it was nevertheless a transgression and the rule they broke came to be, in all liklihood, from an accident sometime in the past as are so many other aviation rules. Safety aside, as an employer the FAA has the right to make rules governing their workplaces, employee conduct and work procedures. Employees need not agree with the rules, but they are obligated to obey them. This guy and his supervisor didn't obey their employer's rules, and now they're in shit. So be it.

[2.5milefinal]

CBS Newspath
Published: March 4, 2010
» 0 Comments | Post a Comment

An air traffic controller and a supervisor remain suspended for letting children radio instructions to pilots.

But is this really such a big deal? Even experts are divided

Others say it was an incredibly stupid mistake.

Controller Glenn Duffy brought one of his kids to work here at Kennedy Airport in February during their school vacation - and then brought a 2nd one the following day.

This is the third time in the past year that the actions of air traffic controllers have raised eyebrows.

The FAA is implementing a new program to encourage controllers to report problems, including their own mistakes….without fear of punishment.

As for the controller at JFK- some travelers say he should lose his job.

The Federal Aviation Administration and the pilot’s union have both condemned the incidents. And while the FAA investigates….all non official visits to control tower and radar rooms are banned.

http://www2.wnct.com/nct/news/national/ ... er/115898/

[GoinNowhereFast]

So having been confronted with a blatant and very, VERY public case of this occurring just what do you think the FAA is going to do about it? Ignore it? From a liability standpoint that would be rather stupid and irresponsible as well.

I think the FAA should issue the following statement "This is a serious incident and we are dealing with internally". In the mean time, post a memo saying "naughty naughty, no more kids on the radio" and perhaps the 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

Just because the media has a heyday over an issue, doesn't mean it needs to be dealt with in a public and overly severe manner. Is it really necessary to lead him to the stocks?

[cyeg66]

And while the FAA investigates….all non official visits to control tower and radar rooms are banned.

Oooooh, I like how it sounds so official. Must be a really complex investigation. "Was the kid here? Yup. Did he repeat your instructions on the mic to a few planes? Yup. Ok, we're all done here. Thank you for your time. Enjoy your unpaid time off. But first, where's that wet noodle?" Sure isn't causing managment to flinch this side of the 49th. Just had visitors go thru moments ago, looking bored and less-than-semi-interested as usual. Must be the bunker-style feel of this dungeon.

[Localizer]

Rockie,

We are all responsible adults ... but you in particular need to read the book to everyone. Point is .. the FAA only does their job "PART" of the time .. I don't see the FAA breathing down the backs of companies, that employees and the like have made serious complaints about. But as soon as something is in the media the FAA thinks its time to go to work??? Why do we have to wait for something to show up in the media for the FAA to do its job??? .. A pilot .. there on him .. a controller lets his kid talk on a mic .. there on him .. Colgan has pilots complain about safety issues at there company .. back burner ..

I don't have faith in the FAA .. or TC for that matter .. They only react when they might look bad. Other than that .. they don't do there job .. unless its time to crucify you or I.

Cheers ..

[Bushav8er]

FIRE THE MEDIA! Over kill again. Its about time that a law was made forcing media to confirm information, and understand what it means BEFORE reporting anything.

First, the Controller was THERE with the kid(s) supervising and TELLING them what to say and, second, he only allowed them basic stuff - cleared take-off/contact departure.

What the hell is the big deal...oh wait I know - another slow news day

[Rockie]

Why do we have to wait for something to show up in the media for the FAA to do its job???

Politics and perception.

It's what drives every single government department in this country as well, including Transport Canada. Not saying it's right, but it is a fact of life.

And not only government departments either. You will recall Toyota dragging their heels until the press sank their teeth into their problems. Sponsor's bailing on Tiger Woods anyone? Do you really think any of them actually care about his morals?

Any organization that cares about their image is going to protect it. The FAA has their own image to protect which is why this guy is paying the price. Also the person responsible for addressing it would be remiss in his own job if he did nothing. There are rules against what this guy did so don't you think somewhere along the line someone would notice and have to do something about it. As I said before, this guy knew the rules and willingly broke them. If he's not prepared to stand in front of his bosses desk and face the music for it then he shouldn't have done it. It's not like his kid wouldn't enjoy the visit without talking on the radio.

[Hedley]

I'm a big fan of disproportionate responses.

Heck, yesterday a puppy crapped on the carpet,
so I got the baseball bat out and smashed his
skull in.

He won't do that again, will he?

[Wilbur]

It turned out they broke the cardinal rule of working in the public sector. DO NOT draw attention to the Minister (or other elected or politically appointed person). Sometimes the only difference between a friendly chat and trip up S creek is who knows about your actions. There have been many times I've sat down an employee who did something and asked them this simple question, "When the media and/or the minister call and ask you to explain what you did while on the job, what will you say?" I suspect this controller and his supervisor didn't ask themselves that question, and now they're into one of those "what was I thinking?" occasions.

[boeingboy]

Done a low peak hours under direct supervision of his father. Personally I don't see any problem. Yea he got caught, so slap him on the wrist and say don't do it again.

Everyone here says he violated FAA reg's.............Did he? Does anyone know what the regs state? After this the FAA stopped all unauthorized access to towers. I thought that would have been the case anyway, but apparently there was no problem bringing your kids into the tower.

As for the A310 - That's a far stretch. Yes - the kid accidently disconnected the autopilot, but the crew couldn't figure out what was going on and didn't know how to fly the plane. They were bumbling around long after they took control again, and eventually the plane got away from them. There was even talk of a design problem and I believe Airbus modified the planes after this.

[Pratt]

They will probably charge the kid with not having a radio licence.