. . wrote:It has never been easy getting a start in flying but a lot of us did it without being financially sodomized as ramp rats.
Financially sodomized? I made double working as a rampie than I would have in fast food or the like, plus health and dental, and an RRSP program.
. . wrote:It is highly unlikely that any company will guarantee a job to anyone if they work as a ramp rat.
Rather than work at McDonalds why not get a job in construction or the oil patch or drive a truck....
...jobs that pay a living wage and usually more than flying an airplane.
I was given a guarantee that I would get a flying job if I worked the ramp. Hell, I signed a contract. As for working in construction, the oil patch, or driving a truck, I didn't have any money left to get myself anymore training, I had no relevant experience in any of those fields, and frankly I don't think I would have lasted in those industries. Besides, with all the layoffs in the oil patch right now, you'd have a hell of a time finding a job in any of those industries (and if you think that only affects Alberta and Saskatchewan, most of the people who were laid off first were from out-of-province and being flown in on the companies' dime); there are are thousands of unemployed construction workers, rig pigs, and truck drivers across the country. If there aren't high-paying jobs available in any industry, do you just refuse to work altogether? When I started looking for a job, six years ago during the absolute nadir of the recession, I couldn't even find a job in fast food, because there was zero hiring going on in any industry. There were absolutely no direct-entry flying jobs available, and air operators were downsizing or closing altogether, so they weren't even hiring experienced pilots, let alone guys with 200 hours. One of the companies to which I applied finally responded and said that they didn't have any flying jobs, but because of retirements and mat leave they expected something would open up within a year; if I stayed for that long, at the most, they guaranteed I would be in a cockpit. If I didn't want to work the ramp, I could get a job stocking shelves at Canadian Tire or something until my spot opened, but why wouldn't I want to work around airplanes, and for better pay no less? Because it's not good enough for .?
Things have changed over the last eighty years, or however long it's been since . and Illya started flying. That you were able to get straight in a plane is great, but it isn't the rule, it's the exception, and I suspect it was the same back then. It might have worked like that for you two, but how many thousands of pilots just gave up on ever getting a job and went to other industries? We don't hear from them, obviously, so all we get is the perspective of the two who were lucky enough to get flying jobs right away. The bush isn't what it used to be anyway, and light singles are disappearing; the flying that used to be done by Beavers and 206s is now done by King Airs and Twin Otters. Even trying to get a right-seat job isn't easy anymore, what with Contrails and provincial regulations for air ambulance pilots to have 500 hours. As for crop dusting, most of the ads out are like this:
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 7&t=101743 They want 1000 hours of ag flying. Ag companies (and float operators, for that matter) are becoming sensitive to lawsuits and insurance requirements, and it's cheaper to raise their experience levels than train 200-hour pilots. About the only entry-level jobs that go directly into a cockpit, besides paying for an instructor rating, are some dockhand/float flying jobs, where apparently it's okay to do manual labour if you get 30 hours in a 185 in a year, and skydiving. If you insist on getting a flying job, you're competing with hundreds of other pilots for a few coveted positions, and what do you do if you finish your licence in the fall when all of those operators shut down for the season? Work at Mickey D's, or work for an aviation company? I worked for an airline while I was working on my licence, in a position that would never have ever possibly led to a flying job, and I loved it because I worked around airplanes, not to mention making a living wage. What's wrong with that?
My SO is a highly-paid professional with a degree from a prestigious university, but when she was a fresh graduate she had to work at Hallmark to pay her bills. Her cousin has a teaching certificate, and he works part-time at Costco. Just because someone gave you a piece of paper saying that you're
able to work in a particular job doesn't mean you
deserve to work in that job, and it certainly doesn't mean that it's beneath you to work in another job while you try to get your chosen career started. In the thread on getting one's first job, Roar stated that he spent every day hanging around the airport making contacts and getting to know people, until he was offered a job after a year. That's great and all, but what was he doing for money for that year? I would have been working with airplanes, in some form, because I love being around them. I spent a year as a rampie, and got flying within a year anyway, so how would I have been better off if I didn't work for that year while I schmoozed? I don't see the harm in working the ramp and making an income, while still making contacts, even if it won't lead to a flying position, if that's a job that you'll enjoy. Should I work a job that I hate because it pays 10% more and it's more acceptable to . and Illya?
What irritates me the most is the older generation getting up the backs of kids fresh out of school, who have no power, no influence, and no savings to sit around for a couple of years waiting for the perfect job to be handed to them on a golden platter. Meanwhile, the CPs, ops managers, and the pilots who are their friends come on here to berate guys who are just trying to get a foothold in the industry, and who have to deal with the situation that was created by the older guys. You can't possibly blame young pilots for taking ramp jobs when it's the managers and the senior guys who are making those jobs, and forcing new employees to work the ramp. You don't like it? So what have you done about it? Have you talked to your CP and encouraged him/her to hire 200-hour pilots? Or did you sit together at the bar and laugh at all the stupid people who apply to your company with less than 1000 hours? New pilots are dealing with the industry that
YOU created, and that only
YOU have the power to change, but you aren't doing anything about it. I wonder if this whole assault on pilots taking ramp jobs is just a subconscious way for you to deflect your guilt, a way to place blame on someone else, when you know deep down that you are responsible for them taking those jobs. Getting upset with new pilots taking non-flying jobs is like yelling at your dog for pooping on the floor after you left him locked inside all day.
