WJ Pilots seek ALPA unionization vote

[Airbrake]

this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.

I'd say the WJA shares have benefited as well.
Not the same % but still have just about passed the high in the last 2 years.

[brooks]

I must say I wish I didn't sell at $13, I am quite jealous. WJ might get back up in the high 20s by fall.

[iflyroads]

Has encore gone ALPA as well or are they trying to still?

[Transonic]

this has been a real tailwind for the AC shares. thanks for the windfall.

It is WJA that is riding the tailwind.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report- ... e35572847/

[tsgas]

wrong . you don't know much about the TSX

[Transonic]

wrong . you don't know much about the TSX

No?

On Jul 5th AC announced there would be a greater than expected Q2 result. WJA closed the previous day at 23.54. On, Jul 5th it reached 24.34 after breaking through a key resistance level of 23.50. WJA spent 9 months bouncing off that resistance level. It peaked at 25.88 on the 7th day after the breakout.

Please tsgas, enlighten us.

[Mach1]

I see they are going with the strategy I predicted they would go with. Drag it out as long as possible.

Turan Quettawala

Great. Thank you very much. And I guess just one more question that I guess we’re getting from investors here for sure in terms of the unionization, can you talk a little bit about what’s happening over the pilots’ union now? What the next steps are? And also maybe if you can talk a little bit about other employee groups that are planned to unionize as well within the next year or so? Thank you.

Gregg Saretsky

Yes, So, Turan, it’s a process that’s prescribed by the CIRB, and one that is well understood by all parties. We will be starting that negotiation with ALPA in September. It’s a process that can go for quite a long time; JetBlue in United States has gone four years without its first ALPA agreement. So we expect that to be a lengthy negotiating period and no impact to 2017 or 2018.

[JBI]

I see they are going with the strategy I predicted they would go with. Drag it out as long as possible.

It’s a process that can go for quite a long time; JetBlue in United States has gone four years without its first ALPA agreement. So we expect that to be a lengthy negotiating period and no impact to 2017 or 2018.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you - I think WestJet will negotiate extremely hard for the first CBA with all the other employee groups watching what happens with the pilots. There's only so much you can read in to comments made in a conference call with analysts. They instantly equate a unionized pilot group with higher labour costs and labour strife. I see this comment as trying to assuage their fears, especially for the upcoming year where WestJet continues to have some pretty high costs with a number of aircraft orders on the way.

WestJet pilots are under a very different legislative framework with regard to negotiating the first CBA which I understand has a little more stringent timelines for negotiating the first agreement. However, the reference to JetBlue should also calm investors fears over labour strife as JetBlue has, generally speaking, continued to be successful even during initial labour negotiations with the pilot group.

[rudder]

Saretsky either intentionally misled or was not aware of the different Labour Code provisions that apply in Canada vs the RLA in the U.S.

Does not portend well for the process.

[Longtimer]

Saretsky either intentionally misled or was not aware of the different Labour Code provisions that apply in Canada vs the RLA in the U.S.

Does not portend well for the process.

The following may be of interest, note the highlighted area.

Collective Bargaining

Once a union has been certified or voluntarily recognized, the employer and the union must meet in an attempt to reach a collective agreement. The employer must respect the statutory freeze period and cannot change the terms and conditions of employment for its employees until an agreement has been reached voluntarily, until there is a lockout or strike, or pursuant to the arbitration provisions in the legislation.

The collective agreement is a contract setting out the terms and conditions of employees in the bargaining unit. Once ratified, it becomes a legally enforceable and binding contract. It normally has a defined term and is subject to re-negotiation on a pre-determined schedule. Unless the legislation otherwise specifies, the agreement usually states whether it will expire at the end of the term, until it is re-negotiated, or whether it will continue in full force and effect until a renewal agreement is reached.

As soon as a union represents the employee, the employee and the employer cannot negotiate with each other over individual terms and conditions of employment. The union is the sole and exclusive bargaining agent for the employees it represents. The employer must deal with the appointed union representatives.
http://hrcouncil.ca/hr-toolkit/policies ... t.cfm#sec4

[Mach1]

I understand the current agreement is frozen. The implication for the company is that there will be no increase in labour costs as long as they can hold off negotiating a new contract. I know there is a limit on how long the company can stall before it is taken to arbitration (which is a bit of a coin toss in itself) but, I have found no limitation on how long it can stay in arbitration.

Conclusion: It could be a really long time before anyone sees a raise.

[CaptainHaddock]

I believe once they start the negotiations they only have one year to complete them in canada, if they fail it comes to a mediator, then arbitrator. So no dragging on for 4 years. I don't think either side wants it to go that long even.

[Mach1]

if they fail it comes to a mediator, then arbitrator. So no dragging on for 4 years. I don't think either side wants it to go that long even.

But no rules on how long it can stay in arbitration... not that I can find... and a question everyone avoids answering when I ask it.

[moe]

Delta contract pls
Thanks

[NewCommercialPilot]

Less than 24% of the eligible 529 members of the YYZ LEC bothered to vote for their Captain and FO representative, and I understand YYC had a similar amount of engagement. It was these same LEC reps from the three bases who then "chose" the MEC positions. I'm curious as to the apathy. Is it buyer's remorse. And how legitimate are the MEC members given the apathy?

Cheers

John

[RRJetPilot]

Less than 24% of the eligible 529 members of the YYZ LEC bothered to vote for their Captain and FO representative, and I understand YYC had a similar amount of engagement. It was these same LEC reps from the three bases who then "chose" the MEC positions. I'm curious as to the apathy. Is it buyer's remorse. And how legitimate are the MEC members given the apathy?

Cheers

John

Is your goal to divide your own pilot group?

ALPA is here to represent pilots nation wide and improve working conditions and wages. And protect us. I seem to remember hearing you were calling for protection once? What made you change your tune?

I don't comment much but In my opinion of your posts you are a disgrace to the pilot community.

Maybe stick to bragging about your stupid wing suit adventures.

[Schooner69A]

RRJP


“Is your goal to divide your own pilot group?”

I think he’s highlighting that this may already have happened? What’s your take on the situation? What could have caused the poor turn-out?


“I don't comment much but In my opinion of your posts you are a disgrace to the pilot community.”

To which pilot community do you refer? If it’s the 604 group, that’s a terrible thing to say. However, if it’s any other group, that’s a pretty mild rebuke… Do you want to know my opinion of someone who attacks a poster without offering any comment on the subject post? Gormless comes to mind… Look up “ad hominem”


"Maybe stick to bragging about your stupid wing suit adventures."

The use of the word “stupid” in the phrase “…stupid wing suit…” reminds me of my four-year old daughter sputtering at her five-year old brother when she did not have the vocabulary to utter anything else.

[Ex DC10 Driver]

I agree with New Commercial Pilot's observation. There is definitely apathy taking place. Some LEC members were 'elected' by acclimation due to very few of the 1500 pilots volunteering to run for an elected position. However regardless of the turn out they are legitimate as they were elected. If they turn out to underperform people's expectations, those who did not vote or opt to run themselves have no right to complain.

[NewCommercialPilot]

Ha! Amusing. As if anything I could post here could divide WJ pilots. What a poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain.

Another point: how is it that the promoters and organizers of ALPA who divided the pilot group were also not disgraceful? The definition of a double standard...

Anyhow every day brings us closer to a de-certification vote. Sub 25% voter participation is something that the WJPA never experienced.

Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic

[rxl]

Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic

Speaking of the "poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain" ...

[mantogasrsrwy]

Oh, the latest thing I'm crowing about is my 28,000 foot skydive in Tennessee a few weeks back. Check out my YouTube channel for the highlights of that jump. Next year's goal is a jump from 39,000 feet. Stay tuned!

Captain Fan-freaking-tastic

Speaking of the "poor use of the logic part of a breathing human being's brain" ...

Do you see the irony in your post? I do.

[True North]

The apathy is very interesting but I don't see a de-certification vote coming any time soon - too much apathy.

The pro ALPA gang won their campaign on a lot of promises, now they have to deliver on those promises and good luck with that. I've talked to lots of WJ guys over the last few months and I absolutely cannot believe what they bought into. Of course unions always promise the moon but the fact that a bunch of allegedly intelligent individuals bought their story is quite frankly, shocking.

I will make a couple of predictions; the first CBA negotiated for the WJ pilots by ALPA will be a concessionary contract. They will go backwards. WJ management is going to send a signal to all the other employee groups that are thinking about unionizing and the message won't be pretty. There isn't a hope in hell that ALPA, or any union for that matter, will be able to deliver on even half of the promises they made. This will go to arbitration - guaranteed, and the pilots will lose in arbitration.

Going to be very interesting to watch.

[jjj]

I’ll take the bet that the company will not want to have this go on forever.

We currently have a contract to a minimum of 77.5 hours a month in a 16 day max. I’ll take that deal under the new duty regs kick in and they can only get 68 hours of productivity. They will have a bird and frankly being dying to have a little sit down.

If that doesn’t do it then when they can’t run the ULCC properly - they’ll be dying to chat.

When Encore starts parking airplanes - they’ll want to chat.

That is the tip of the iceberg over the next couple years and I like the odds.

[True North]

If all that is true then why do you need ALPA?

[Nwtflier]

To have the guidance and backing of a pilot ran Union over an association that was bargaining with a loaded deck.