JS I respect defending ones company and ones opinion, but pull your head out of your butt. I can tell by the tone of your posts that you think all new hires at AC should make crap pay because you had to do it. You seem to defend ACPA even though they ate their young during the last negotiations. I think its shamefull and I don't even work their.
I suggest you look at the pay for emirates again and tell me how its worse then AC's or even close. When you factor in the housing and per diem it will be close to 7000 CAN a month take home which is much more then you make now as a captain. My friends last year recieved a profit sharing cheque for 18,000 US and the year before it was 24,000. The housing allowance alone at Gulf Air is more then AC's wage. If your argument is "I don't want to live in the Gulf" then so be it, its a personal choice but if you are attempting to say AC's wage or any airline in Canada for that matter is anywhere close don't even try.
Oh ya, I just read the part about why a 340 captain at AC should make 10 times what the RP makes, (responsibility and experience was it) thanks for the laugh I nearly fell on the floor. What do they teach at the Command course anyways?
Turning down the RED team
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
Why is 37k the starting wage?
That was negotiated in bankruptcy.It was an easy way to cut the cost they were asking of us.We were there ,strugling and making sacrifices to survive to see another day.Yes the pay is the shits I totaly agree but I suffered through bankrupcy and lost 100k by going from 320 to CRJ for 2 years.We voted and accepted this because we had to fight for our survival at the time.
We gave on that point to save other things for the ones that were already at AC yes,at the sacrifice of the guys and gals that are waltzing in today after the storm as cleared......if your airline wherever you guys work went bankrupt and came to you saying we need to cut 1.1 Billion would you have stood up and said take it of my pay but don't touch the new hire pay....it's low enough as it is? Would any of you have done that?
The pay is crap and that's why......but come on and join anyway because wages are open to negots in 2006 and I guarantee the pay will go up.
Now as far as ACPA selling their young......I am one of the young and let me tell you we all voted on the contract,young and old.
You know why the new-hire pay is so low?If it wasn't you would be flying the damm EMJ for Jazz not mainline.
Our ALPA friends were willing to prostitute themselves to get them (like the CRJ,s) and since the company was in Bankrupcy they could do whatever they wanted those planes were headed for Jazz.
Get it?It's not ACPA or anybody eating there young quite the contrary.
It was the cost to get 400 jobs in the mainline and not letting it slip to the regionals.
That was negotiated in bankruptcy.It was an easy way to cut the cost they were asking of us.We were there ,strugling and making sacrifices to survive to see another day.Yes the pay is the shits I totaly agree but I suffered through bankrupcy and lost 100k by going from 320 to CRJ for 2 years.We voted and accepted this because we had to fight for our survival at the time.
We gave on that point to save other things for the ones that were already at AC yes,at the sacrifice of the guys and gals that are waltzing in today after the storm as cleared......if your airline wherever you guys work went bankrupt and came to you saying we need to cut 1.1 Billion would you have stood up and said take it of my pay but don't touch the new hire pay....it's low enough as it is? Would any of you have done that?
The pay is crap and that's why......but come on and join anyway because wages are open to negots in 2006 and I guarantee the pay will go up.
Now as far as ACPA selling their young......I am one of the young and let me tell you we all voted on the contract,young and old.
You know why the new-hire pay is so low?If it wasn't you would be flying the damm EMJ for Jazz not mainline.
Our ALPA friends were willing to prostitute themselves to get them (like the CRJ,s) and since the company was in Bankrupcy they could do whatever they wanted those planes were headed for Jazz.
Get it?It's not ACPA or anybody eating there young quite the contrary.
It was the cost to get 400 jobs in the mainline and not letting it slip to the regionals.
JS you are without a doubt one of the biggest suppliers of info on AC on this site. You are in the know and have your facts straight or so it would seem....
You are also an arrogant Tw%t sometimes as well. I have never heard someone go on and on so much about how much money they make. You fly a regional jet as a capt and make 10k a month. Allow me to shake your hand. On a side note do I about the same in CAD on a busy month as an FO on the 777 (2 years in the company after tax). So enough about how much you make as I would imagine some of your FO's are ready to hang themselves listening to it.
AC is a great gig no doubt about it but for most it will never happen and for those joining in the coming years it will be a struggle with such poor starting wages. If anyone wants to argue that other majors world wide start people on such low pay get your head checked. Why does an AC 340 skipper get 10 times as much as a new joiner? In my out fit the ratio is about 4-5 times. This means the new joiner can actually buy a house or afford to keep the one they already have.
'Sorry bud, Gulf Air is a shit hole made up of ex-pat pilots who can't get a job anywhere else.' Again I am sure that all Gulf Air Pilots would appreciate that one. EK a bad place to work? Has its rough bits but the airline is growing so fast (see 777 order this week) that their is bound to be trouble.
Again, AC is not the be all and end all. If you like the Leafs, snow, traffic and listening to people tell you how great Toronto is then sign up. If not look elsewhere as there is lots to offer.
You are also an arrogant Tw%t sometimes as well. I have never heard someone go on and on so much about how much money they make. You fly a regional jet as a capt and make 10k a month. Allow me to shake your hand. On a side note do I about the same in CAD on a busy month as an FO on the 777 (2 years in the company after tax). So enough about how much you make as I would imagine some of your FO's are ready to hang themselves listening to it.
AC is a great gig no doubt about it but for most it will never happen and for those joining in the coming years it will be a struggle with such poor starting wages. If anyone wants to argue that other majors world wide start people on such low pay get your head checked. Why does an AC 340 skipper get 10 times as much as a new joiner? In my out fit the ratio is about 4-5 times. This means the new joiner can actually buy a house or afford to keep the one they already have.
'Sorry bud, Gulf Air is a shit hole made up of ex-pat pilots who can't get a job anywhere else.' Again I am sure that all Gulf Air Pilots would appreciate that one. EK a bad place to work? Has its rough bits but the airline is growing so fast (see 777 order this week) that their is bound to be trouble.
Again, AC is not the be all and end all. If you like the Leafs, snow, traffic and listening to people tell you how great Toronto is then sign up. If not look elsewhere as there is lots to offer.
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Gurundu the Rat
- Rank 5
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:59 am
You know why pay is so low? I'll tell you why. ACPA would rather bite off their own nose to spite their face than sign anything with ALPA like GS. With a GS it would be irrelevant who flies what and we could get on with getting descent pay here instead of being the laughing stock of the western world. As for the CRJs, I think everyone here knows who prostituted them selves when AIR NOVA initially ordered them. Jazz used to operate Beech 1900Ds but you don't see anyone here bitching and whining about them going to GGN because that is where they belong. Stop blaming Jazz for mainlines shortcomings. I guarantee you that 85% of Jazz pilots are willing to work with ACPA to fix this problem without any preconditions to talk. Unfortunately all we got from ACPA was a slap in the face with a wet fish.You know why the new-hire pay is so low?If it wasn't you would be flying the damm EMJ for Jazz not mainline.
Our ALPA friends were willing to prostitute themselves to get them (like the CRJ,s) and since the company was in Bankrupcy they could do whatever they wanted those planes were headed for Jazz.
Get it?It's not ACPA or anybody eating there young quite the contrary.
It was the cost to get 400 jobs in the mainline and not letting it slip to the regionals.
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tonysoprano
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2589
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:01 pm
Gurundu.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but....
You sound like someone who yearns to fly the big stuff. If so, the mainline is hiring. Or did you already go down that road and it didn't work out? Why hope for a GS? There's a much easier way to get that dream job. Forget the backroom deals, wheeling and dealing politics. Just throw in a resume'!!!! Better still, ask some of your buddies to drop that law suit and maybe ACPA will listen. I know, the lawsuit has nothing to do with ALPA. Trouble is, the guys doing the suing just happen to be ALPA members, some of them even being the big wigs in the group. So my friend, it's up to you. You can take the easy way or keep dreaming about something that will never happen. Just some advise from one Red guy to another.
And while I'm at it,
RB-211.
Sorry pal, but the desert just ain't what it used to be. Even a few ex AC guys who have come over don't like it. The general feeling is that there are no more incentives good enough to give up AC. And by the way, our starting salary is $40k and the top end widebody capt is just over $200k. That's about 4-5 times more just like your operation. A far cry from 10 times. Too much camel piss is harming you. Take care.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but....
You sound like someone who yearns to fly the big stuff. If so, the mainline is hiring. Or did you already go down that road and it didn't work out? Why hope for a GS? There's a much easier way to get that dream job. Forget the backroom deals, wheeling and dealing politics. Just throw in a resume'!!!! Better still, ask some of your buddies to drop that law suit and maybe ACPA will listen. I know, the lawsuit has nothing to do with ALPA. Trouble is, the guys doing the suing just happen to be ALPA members, some of them even being the big wigs in the group. So my friend, it's up to you. You can take the easy way or keep dreaming about something that will never happen. Just some advise from one Red guy to another.
And while I'm at it,
RB-211.
Sorry pal, but the desert just ain't what it used to be. Even a few ex AC guys who have come over don't like it. The general feeling is that there are no more incentives good enough to give up AC. And by the way, our starting salary is $40k and the top end widebody capt is just over $200k. That's about 4-5 times more just like your operation. A far cry from 10 times. Too much camel piss is harming you. Take care.
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Vickers vanguard
- Rank 7
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:04 pm
- Location: YUL
well said JS, I worked for Gulf Air (Maintenance..I wasn't flying yet at the time) back during its glorious days when they had the L1011s....years later, we were forced to transfer to a newlly created subsidiary with lower wages and benefits....all that, whithin a 30 days notice !Jaques Strappe wrote: Note the little caption that says a union is illegal in the UAE. That means you have no rights, nada, nothing. Lets hope you are never involved in an incident of any kind.
last but not the least, your comment about not to get involved in an incident of any kind is right......I was, twice.....and that ,what convinced me to get the hell out of that place.
Global solution was not going to work because your union leaders would not accept bottom of the list.They always and forever will believe that they should be 767 captains right away.If it wasn't for your top brass at your MEC you would all have an AC seniority number.
You say ACPA eat their young? Look at what your union has done to your chances at an Air Canada career.....all because of their own bitterness and misguided ideas.
Finally, to the guys at EK, I know very happy people there as well as unhappy,that is another very interesting debate but how are you clearing 10k per month?The salary is about 17000Dirhams wich is aprox 5500CAD$.....I figure you may be adding 1000$ per diems but how do you get to 10K (not doubting you just curious as I have a friend there who's 330 Capt and I seem to recall him saying he was clearing around 11K as Capt)
You say ACPA eat their young? Look at what your union has done to your chances at an Air Canada career.....all because of their own bitterness and misguided ideas.
Finally, to the guys at EK, I know very happy people there as well as unhappy,that is another very interesting debate but how are you clearing 10k per month?The salary is about 17000Dirhams wich is aprox 5500CAD$.....I figure you may be adding 1000$ per diems but how do you get to 10K (not doubting you just curious as I have a friend there who's 330 Capt and I seem to recall him saying he was clearing around 11K as Capt)
Salary is about 19k now with last year's increment of 11% which is about 6k CAD, plus benefits and free housing. Capt is about 10-11k CAD plus the extra's. Overtime after 80 hours. Strong CAD dollar sure doesn't help. Command is less than three years on the 777 and a little over three on the 330.
babybus, in the recent GS talks, Jazz did not come to the table with DOH or anything close. I believe it was BOTL right from the start. Regardless, there will always be some reason that it won't get done. It will be some "he said, she said" bullshit that will make one side bail. I hear excuses like "drop the lawsuit, Piche still stands blah blah blah!!! In the meantime, we can continue to cut each others throats, drive down the pay and keep squabbling over a few planes. In this war, ACPA and ALPA are the losers.
Take CCAA for instance. ACPA wanted to destroy Jazz and make it go away. Jazz wanted to kick ACPA in the nuts. BOTH sides lowered their pants and let it all hang out to secure the RJ/EMB allocation. Well, Jazz is still here and now has 74 Jets and a bunch of D-8s. ACPA got the EMB and lost all the RJs. Who is the big winner? Milton!!! He got a great big fat bonus for securing the savings from both groups. Losers? Yep, ALL the pilots. Now everyone (especially new hires) are flying for less. That is not just a product of CCAA. They used CCAA as a catapult to get things started. Once ACPA and ALPA started fighting over the same hulls, it was over. Regardless of who go the flying, it was going to be for a lot less.
Do you think AC gave Jazz the planes for a reason? They were able to get ACPA to fly the EMB for a lot less and now Jazz can be used against you in future negotiations. Don't think for a second the Jazz MEC won't be looking over it's shoulder in the next round of negots (2009).
So as it stands, ACPA blames Jazz and the "LAWSUIT" for nothing getting done. ALPA blames preconditions etc.... for nothing happening. CLAP CLAP CLAP. That's it, take a bow, or should I say BEND OVER. Good luck in the next negotiations. maybe you guys could get some FREE flying days thrown in. Oh wait, the old gus at the negots table don't really care because their careers are winding down and they will be the 1st rats off the ship.
GS? Don't waste my time and cyber energy toying with the idea. It will never happen. Too much ME ME ME on both sides. Problem is, the ME is getting less money to fly bigger equipment on both sides of the fence. ACPA, enjoy your EMBs. ALPA, enjoy your RJs. Pilots, enjoy less money from here on in.
Take CCAA for instance. ACPA wanted to destroy Jazz and make it go away. Jazz wanted to kick ACPA in the nuts. BOTH sides lowered their pants and let it all hang out to secure the RJ/EMB allocation. Well, Jazz is still here and now has 74 Jets and a bunch of D-8s. ACPA got the EMB and lost all the RJs. Who is the big winner? Milton!!! He got a great big fat bonus for securing the savings from both groups. Losers? Yep, ALL the pilots. Now everyone (especially new hires) are flying for less. That is not just a product of CCAA. They used CCAA as a catapult to get things started. Once ACPA and ALPA started fighting over the same hulls, it was over. Regardless of who go the flying, it was going to be for a lot less.
Do you think AC gave Jazz the planes for a reason? They were able to get ACPA to fly the EMB for a lot less and now Jazz can be used against you in future negotiations. Don't think for a second the Jazz MEC won't be looking over it's shoulder in the next round of negots (2009).
So as it stands, ACPA blames Jazz and the "LAWSUIT" for nothing getting done. ALPA blames preconditions etc.... for nothing happening. CLAP CLAP CLAP. That's it, take a bow, or should I say BEND OVER. Good luck in the next negotiations. maybe you guys could get some FREE flying days thrown in. Oh wait, the old gus at the negots table don't really care because their careers are winding down and they will be the 1st rats off the ship.
GS? Don't waste my time and cyber energy toying with the idea. It will never happen. Too much ME ME ME on both sides. Problem is, the ME is getting less money to fly bigger equipment on both sides of the fence. ACPA, enjoy your EMBs. ALPA, enjoy your RJs. Pilots, enjoy less money from here on in.
"Please don't take this the wrong way, but....
You sound like someone who yearns to fly the big stuff. If so, the mainline is hiring. Or did you already go down that road and it didn't work out? Why hope for a GS?"
Tony....GS is not just about Jazz guys wanting to go to mainline.Infact out of 1400 Jazz guys only 250 applied to mainline.GS is about all pilots being a united front in dealings with management to avoid the whipsawing that went on during CCAA.
It is a benefit to both pilot groups and the profession.
You sound like someone who yearns to fly the big stuff. If so, the mainline is hiring. Or did you already go down that road and it didn't work out? Why hope for a GS?"
Tony....GS is not just about Jazz guys wanting to go to mainline.Infact out of 1400 Jazz guys only 250 applied to mainline.GS is about all pilots being a united front in dealings with management to avoid the whipsawing that went on during CCAA.
It is a benefit to both pilot groups and the profession.
Last edited by uncleron on Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Once again you guys have taken it all out of context. Like I said before many times, I don't care where you work or want to work. I do care about mis-information.
You guys who post how great it is in the sandbox making all this money, really need to go there. I Have friends from C3 who are there and will tell you it is a shit hole and that the only reason there is money in their pockets is because of no taxes, not because the company pays them any better than anyone else.
We had guys on course in Doha who came back from the simulator one night to be informed that they had been evicted from the hotel because some prince decided to have a birthday party there one night. You have no rights what so ever, no union, no labour laws. If you think that is worth an extra 500 bucks a month then please go there and make room for people who want to work here.
As for posting a salary, sorry man I had to with all the bullshit that gets posted about Air Canada from people who have never worked for the company.
You guys who post how great it is in the sandbox making all this money, really need to go there. I Have friends from C3 who are there and will tell you it is a shit hole and that the only reason there is money in their pockets is because of no taxes, not because the company pays them any better than anyone else.
We had guys on course in Doha who came back from the simulator one night to be informed that they had been evicted from the hotel because some prince decided to have a birthday party there one night. You have no rights what so ever, no union, no labour laws. If you think that is worth an extra 500 bucks a month then please go there and make room for people who want to work here.
As for posting a salary, sorry man I had to with all the bullshit that gets posted about Air Canada from people who have never worked for the company.
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tonysoprano
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2589
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:01 pm
JS
I'm starting to think the misinformation is a blatent attempt to diminish AC. There are lots of miserable people out there toward AC. Some never got a call. Some were turned down at the interview or medical or sim eval. Some never had any ambition to work at AC, having been "brought up" just plain hating it. People will believe whatever it takes to justify their feelings and then they end up spreading the shit where ever they go. The only thing that matters to me is that I know the facts and always try to stay real. I'm sure you feel the same way.
Uncleron.
You believe what you want to. Years ago at Jazz, I kept beeing reminded that it was all about seniority and flying the bigger airplanes. Those same guys haven't gone away. Being a united group to deal with management all sounds nice. Unfortunayely I think seniority would still have to be delt with. ACPA thus far has no intention to go there. As for being the fastest growing airline in Canada, I congradulate you. Just don't do it with my airplanes.
I'm starting to think the misinformation is a blatent attempt to diminish AC. There are lots of miserable people out there toward AC. Some never got a call. Some were turned down at the interview or medical or sim eval. Some never had any ambition to work at AC, having been "brought up" just plain hating it. People will believe whatever it takes to justify their feelings and then they end up spreading the shit where ever they go. The only thing that matters to me is that I know the facts and always try to stay real. I'm sure you feel the same way.
Uncleron.
You believe what you want to. Years ago at Jazz, I kept beeing reminded that it was all about seniority and flying the bigger airplanes. Those same guys haven't gone away. Being a united group to deal with management all sounds nice. Unfortunayely I think seniority would still have to be delt with. ACPA thus far has no intention to go there. As for being the fastest growing airline in Canada, I congradulate you. Just don't do it with my airplanes.
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metal overcast
- Rank 3
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:25 am
Sorry to bust in here guys but...
What is the deal with tax free income? I have made "tax free income" and well, lets just say if you let the CCRA know about this income, they will find a way to get their piece of it.
I was working in a locale that had a tax treaty, written in black and white on the CCRA website and those bastards found a way to audit me and get a piece of the pie. Perhaps the problem was that I maintained factual citizenship and filed a tax return, who knows, but they got me. Other friends who worked with me and didn't submit a tax return got to keep all of their money, I guess theirs was "tax free" after all.
Nevertheless, I am very scepticle of the word tax free when it comes to overseas employment.
If anyone knows how to fight the man on this, drop me a line.
Neo
What is the deal with tax free income? I have made "tax free income" and well, lets just say if you let the CCRA know about this income, they will find a way to get their piece of it.
I was working in a locale that had a tax treaty, written in black and white on the CCRA website and those bastards found a way to audit me and get a piece of the pie. Perhaps the problem was that I maintained factual citizenship and filed a tax return, who knows, but they got me. Other friends who worked with me and didn't submit a tax return got to keep all of their money, I guess theirs was "tax free" after all.
Nevertheless, I am very scepticle of the word tax free when it comes to overseas employment.
If anyone knows how to fight the man on this, drop me a line.
Neo
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pauliewalnuts
- Rank 1
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:57 am
- Location: GTAA
tony wrote
Even if you are not a hardliner and your union says you are getting some more flying, you are going to support it. Do you care that it came from mainline? Not really.More numbers =more seniority which equals more security etc...
No one wants to make the effort to stop this, that leaves no choice but to fight for the scraps.
That is exactly who's planes Jazz wants to do it with. As long as the pissing match continues, there are no holds barred. It is a bonus to increase the number of hulls at Jazz. To do it by stealing flying or airplanes from mainline is the ultimate prize. As long as it is an US vs THEM scenario, both teams are expected to do whatever it takes to protect their own interests. That is the bases of whipsawing and is the bases of the relationship between mainline and Jazz. Unntil something is done about it, the company will pitt the 2 against each other and keep reaping the rewards.As for being the fastest growing airline in Canada, I congradulate you. Just don't do it with my airplanes.
Even if you are not a hardliner and your union says you are getting some more flying, you are going to support it. Do you care that it came from mainline? Not really.More numbers =more seniority which equals more security etc...
No one wants to make the effort to stop this, that leaves no choice but to fight for the scraps.
My old man got put through the wringer for doing nothing wrong (trying to live offshore) and from his experience that sounds exactly right. Any itsy, bitsy insignificant thing they can find that has the slightest connection to Canada they'll be all over like white on rice.pauliewalnuts wrote:Did you officially sever your residency ties to Canada? By that I mean all credit cards, cell phones, memberships, vehicles, property. etc.
Even though you are a Citizen, as long as you can prove you have no residential ties to Canada you should be ok.
Remember, they're the government... they don't have to make sense or be fair!!
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Hey Metalmetal overcast wrote:I did not misunderstand a word you wrote Strappe.
Who give a shit who makes the salary tax free.
It is what it is.
Does it make you feel the a big man to kick another when he is down?
The point I was trying to make is that the company is willing to pay you xx dollars because they think that is what you are worth. The Emirates and Gulf Air and the like don't think you are worth anymore than anyone else does. You get to keep your gross because the country you are living in doesn't charge you anything to live there.
By the same token though, you have no rights either and could be told to leave at any time. It is a choice that one must make as to whether or not they like having the security of living in their own country and culture. The time of heading to the sandbox and coming back 5 years later a millionaire, is long gone.
A good friend of mine is a 777 Captain at Emirates. His exact words to me were, " things must be really bad in Canada if you want to come here" Another friend of mine jumped the gun when AC was in CCAA and went to Emirates. He is regretting that decision.
Before RB-211 jumps in and does his usual bashing while contributing bugger all, this is simply information that I am passing along that may benefit someone.
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metal overcast
- Rank 3
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:25 am
To be honest if I could get a job in this country I would.
I am not thrilled about being so far away from home and on some level it kind of feels like I failed here.
The other day I met a KingAir fo with no degree and very little experience who told me she was hired at AC and told me her old company may be looking for fo's.
This is one hell of a kick in the teeth. It even looks like WestJet will be leaning toward low timers because they could be in the right seat for at least 5 years.
I guess the only thing I am guilty of is starting in this industry about 3 years to late or early.
I guess the powers that be in the sand box realised they would still get guys if they paid them less. Do I think we are ALL under paid you bet I do. The down side is there is nothing I can to at this time. Laid off three times and twice due to bankruptcy.
It just fukn sucks plain and simple.
I am not thrilled about being so far away from home and on some level it kind of feels like I failed here.
The other day I met a KingAir fo with no degree and very little experience who told me she was hired at AC and told me her old company may be looking for fo's.
This is one hell of a kick in the teeth. It even looks like WestJet will be leaning toward low timers because they could be in the right seat for at least 5 years.
I guess the only thing I am guilty of is starting in this industry about 3 years to late or early.
I guess the powers that be in the sand box realised they would still get guys if they paid them less. Do I think we are ALL under paid you bet I do. The down side is there is nothing I can to at this time. Laid off three times and twice due to bankruptcy.
It just fukn sucks plain and simple.
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1847
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:34 pm
- Location: YYZ
Tony
'Sorry pal, but the desert just ain't what it used to be. Even a few ex AC guys who have come over don't like it. The general feeling is that there are no more incentives good enough to give up AC. And by the way, our starting salary is $40k and the top end widebody capt is just over $200k. That's about 4-5 times more just like your operation. A far cry from 10 times. Too much camel piss is harming you. Take care.'
Dude I don't work in the desert. With BA. I started on 100k CAD and the top guys are on 400K CAD or so (all in). I left Canada a few years ago as did many friends due to ugly things happening. I went to Europe and some went to the Middle East. We are all living with it now and in my case I lucked out. Ever since AC has re structered and made a penny or two all I have heard is how great AC is. Last year it was almost curtains. Just sick of hearing people get bashed. Especially my mates in the middle east who for the most part are good people. I reference you to JS's comments of Gulf Air pilots.....
On that note JS think what you want of me but you fly a light twin. If you want to argue head to head do it. 4 months ago you were trashing flying in Europe, not the sand box. Do us all a favour and button up because you are not helping. Are you 5'9 or less by any chance?
By the way is that a picture of your new plane? It's cute.....
'Sorry pal, but the desert just ain't what it used to be. Even a few ex AC guys who have come over don't like it. The general feeling is that there are no more incentives good enough to give up AC. And by the way, our starting salary is $40k and the top end widebody capt is just over $200k. That's about 4-5 times more just like your operation. A far cry from 10 times. Too much camel piss is harming you. Take care.'
Dude I don't work in the desert. With BA. I started on 100k CAD and the top guys are on 400K CAD or so (all in). I left Canada a few years ago as did many friends due to ugly things happening. I went to Europe and some went to the Middle East. We are all living with it now and in my case I lucked out. Ever since AC has re structered and made a penny or two all I have heard is how great AC is. Last year it was almost curtains. Just sick of hearing people get bashed. Especially my mates in the middle east who for the most part are good people. I reference you to JS's comments of Gulf Air pilots.....
On that note JS think what you want of me but you fly a light twin. If you want to argue head to head do it. 4 months ago you were trashing flying in Europe, not the sand box. Do us all a favour and button up because you are not helping. Are you 5'9 or less by any chance?
By the way is that a picture of your new plane? It's cute.....
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flyer 1492
- Rank 7
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:55 pm
