New duty regs are out

[av8ts]

Large airline's management has accepted the changes and will work with them so it's a reasonable tradeoff vs TC having AC/WJ lobbying hard politically against the changes.

I don’t think they have accepted as much as it’s being forced on them. And it’s because of their hard lobbying that these rules didn’t come into effect years ago.

[groundpilot]

Medevac operators are not exempt but have a different threshold.

There are also provisions for on call and standby.

Its your company's job to sort it out and implement it, it's your responsibility to show up rested and to recognize fatigue.

You have the right to refuse work.

The pilot occupation has been pushed around for years. 200 hrs pilots desperate for their first job. The 4000 hrs pilots desperate for a proper reference.

Management has always had the upper hand.

C'mon man. Give your head a shake

[yhz41]

Medevac operators are not exempt but have a different threshold.

There are also provisions for on call and standby.

Its your company's job to sort it out and implement it, it's your responsibility to show up rested and to recognize fatigue.

You have the right to refuse work.

Something tells me you have never flown medevac.

[fish4life]

Medevac operators are not exempt but have a different threshold.

There are also provisions for on call and standby.

Its your company's job to sort it out and implement it, it's your responsibility to show up rested and to recognize fatigue.

You have the right to refuse work.

Something tells me you have never flown medevac.

I flew medevac and a simple “we are beat and not doing anymore trips tonight” was all it took

[Lightchop]

Medevac operators are not exempt but have a different threshold.

There are also provisions for on call and standby.

Its your company's job to sort it out and implement it, it's your responsibility to show up rested and to recognize fatigue.

You have the right to refuse work.

Something tells me you have never flown medevac.

I flew medevac and a simple “we are beat and not doing anymore trips tonight” was all it took

The rhetoric on here about how the poor 703/704 pilots are so hard done by is ridiculous. I flew 703 like most everyone else. It's not hard to turn down a trip, or say you're too tired. I did it multiple times and guess what!? I still kept my job and got a great reference from my boss when I left. Why? Because the rest of the time I worked my ass off and they knew that if I was saying I wasn't good to go then it was the truth.

If you work for a place that isn't like the company I was at, nothing will ever change if you don't say NO.

[goingnowherefast]

There are companies where the "yes boss" type pilots get upgraded, get pay raises, avoid layoffs, get references, aren't scape goats. The questions being asked are:
"I know you are at gross weight, do you mind taking this extra pax?"
"you can make it to tim-buck-too and back in 30 minutes on paper, right? the logbook is easy to fudge"
"ice is slippery, that little bit on your leading edge will make the plane fly faster, no need to waste fluid"
"You don't look that tired, this trip is worth a lot of money"

Remember that the rules are written for the shithole operators. I got "laid off" many moons ago because a contract wasn't going well. Somehow it was my fault and was a convenient scape goat. Most of the other pilots were the "yes boss" type. I was one of 3 who stood our ground, we were all gone within a year.

It set my career back at least 2 years.

[C.W.E.]

It set my career back at least 2 years.

However you are still alive to build your career.

[digits_]

Medevac operators are not exempt but have a different threshold.

There are also provisions for on call and standby.

Its your company's job to sort it out and implement it, it's your responsibility to show up rested and to recognize fatigue.

You have the right to refuse work.

Something tells me you have never flown medevac.

I flew medevac and a simple “we are beat and not doing anymore trips tonight” was all it took

So that means that you never flew too tired? What if your breaking point happens during a 3 hour flight? You land and sleep in the terminal building?
I'm sure that a shift system like Ornge has, could work for the right person. But the rolling duty, 24/7 on call system that perimeter has for example, is just insane. You'd have to call fatigue on average every 2 days if you really want to avoid flying too tired. If that is something you can do, then great. Either that or you are a super human that never needs sleep.

I've seen a lot of medevac pilots fly way too fatigued, at different companies. It just isn't worth it. And it is mind boggling that this group gets more relaxed rules than the other pilot groups. They need it most.

[digits_]

If you work for a place that isn't like the company I was at, nothing will ever change if you don't say NO.

And if you say NO, what will be the change? You'll be looking or be forced to look for another job, while paying off a bond. And then the next guy can do the same thing or fly unsafe.
A single pilot does not have the power to change anything at crappy operators. And if they weren't crappy operators, nothing should be changed anyways. It is a no win scenario.

And if you are so inclined, you apply at jazz or encore, and they want your direct supervisor for a reference check. Cool!

[goingnowherefast]

It set my career back at least 2 years.

However you are still alive to build your career.

Exactly, my only regret is not leaving sooner.

My point being this type of operator needs to be heavily regulated. They find creative ways to get rid of pilots that don't bow to their desires. There are too many operators like this in Canada, thus the need for the new duty regs.

[C.W.E.]

My point being this type of operator needs to be heavily regulated. They find creative ways to get rid of pilots that don't bow to their desires. There are too many operators like this in Canada, thus the need for the new duty regs.

The reason these maggots are able to stay in business is because there is no regulation and it has been this way ever since I can remember and I started flying commercially in 1954.

With no active regulation from T.C. these maggots are free to intimidate and use young pilots who are trying to break into the flying industry and there has always been an endless supply of victims.

One of the first things I learned about the flying business was never go to T.C. for help because T.C has maggots just like the unlawful operators.

[fish4life]

Something tells me you have never flown medevac.

I flew medevac and a simple “we are beat and not doing anymore trips tonight” was all it took

So that means that you never flew too tired? What if your breaking point happens during a 3 hour flight? You land and sleep in the terminal building?
I'm sure that a shift system like Ornge has, could work for the right person. But the rolling duty, 24/7 on call system that perimeter has for example, is just insane. You'd have to call fatigue on average every 2 days if you really want to avoid flying too tired. If that is something you can do, then great. Either that or you are a super human that never needs sleep.

I've seen a lot of medevac pilots fly way too fatigued, at different companies. It just isn't worth it. And it is mind boggling that this group gets more relaxed rules than the other pilot groups. They need it most.

I think the medevac carveout is crap but that doesn’t mean that pilots have to just take it in the rear. As for rolling duty days I think the new gazette has a requirement for set rest times

[Salt]

For the non - medevac 703 world, has "oncall" been replaced by "stand by"? It does not seem clear in the gazette.

[lownslow]

If you fancy a challenge, try and find the part where they accidentally increased flight duty time. I’m not telling, but it’s in there.

[hithere]

Had anyone been able to determine if the new “bottle to report time” regulation(ie 12hrs) is effective immediately or also subject to an implementation timeline of 2/4 years?

[dogfood]

Something tells me you have never flown medevac.

I flew medevac and a simple “we are beat and not doing anymore trips tonight” was all it took

The rhetoric on here about how the poor 703/704 pilots are so hard done by is ridiculous. I flew 703 like most everyone else. It's not hard to turn down a trip, or say you're too tired. I did it multiple times and guess what!? I still kept my job and got a great reference from my boss when I left. Why? Because the rest of the time I worked my ass off and they knew that if I was saying I wasn't good to go then it was the truth.

If you work for a place that isn't like the company I was at, nothing will ever change if you don't say NO.

That doesn’t always work unfortunately.. the Medevac operator I worked for gave you 3 sick days a year after that your salary got reduced. So after making 26k a year which just covers rent and your kd you really expect the pilot call it quits when their tired some people can’t afford to be fatigue..

[Lightchop]

I flew medevac and a simple “we are beat and not doing anymore trips tonight” was all it took

The rhetoric on here about how the poor 703/704 pilots are so hard done by is ridiculous. I flew 703 like most everyone else. It's not hard to turn down a trip, or say you're too tired. I did it multiple times and guess what!? I still kept my job and got a great reference from my boss when I left. Why? Because the rest of the time I worked my ass off and they knew that if I was saying I wasn't good to go then it was the truth.

If you work for a place that isn't like the company I was at, nothing will ever change if you don't say NO.

That doesn’t always work unfortunately.. the Medevac operator I worked for gave you 3 sick days a year after that your salary got reduced. So after making 26k a year which just covers rent and your kd you really expect the pilot call it quits when their tired some people can’t afford to be fatigue..

Probably time to look for a new job. No one should be working for that little in the current state of the industry. Hell, 3 years ago I made more in the right seat of a Navajo.

[Duukar]

A Medevac operator I worked for provided zero sick days... Apparently nothing has changed...

Yeah they have a hard time filling seats. So they dual qualified 75% of the staff and when you are OC you cover 2 seats as FO and 4 seats as Captain. Minimal pay increase for DQ. After 2 years you get to enjoy the .5% rrsp matching. So there is that....

Another Medevac operator I worked for had us on an illegal schedule resetting on shift if no flying was done for 8 hours...... Until they got audited. Then we refused to go back.

Medevac is the last place they need an exemption. If anything the extremely challenging nature of the flying should call for more restrictive duty regs. At night, self dispatched, in the snow, little to no support, no reliable weather info or rwy condition reporting....

Apparently 5 years of Medevac takes it's toll.

[digits_]

Another Medevac operator I worked for had us on an illegal schedule resetting on shift if no flying was done for 8 hours...... Until they got audited. Then we refused to go back.

Which regulation did they use as an argument in the audit for that? Might help other medevac pilots out to know how it got shut down.

[sstocker31]

"3 Subpart 2 of Part VII of Schedule II to Subpart 3 of Part I of the Regulations"

Only our TRANSPORT CANADA could come up with this......

[Duukar]

Another Medevac operator I worked for had us on an illegal schedule resetting on shift if no flying was done for 8 hours...... Until they got audited. Then we refused to go back.

Which regulation did they use as an argument in the audit for that? Might help other medevac pilots out to know how it got shut down.

They knew it was illegal.. Switched to the legal sched slightly before and during the audit. Their argument was that all the Medevac operators in the province were on the same illegal schedule so it was fine... Manitoba was my favorite province to fly......

Then there was the Medevac operator that claimed garden sprayers filled with gallons of pure isopropyl were exempt from DG regulations..... Til we refused to fly with it. Which took 2 weeks and cost me a year of my life from stress.

I have tons and tons of gritty dirt and it's mostly on Medevac.

My point is transport needs to have deeper and more regular looks at Medevac operators and in addition they should never be given a pass on new duty regs.

Best Medevac operator I ever worked for was Ornge. That place was 100% on the up and up.

[digits_]

Another Medevac operator I worked for had us on an illegal schedule resetting on shift if no flying was done for 8 hours...... Until they got audited. Then we refused to go back.

Which regulation did they use as an argument in the audit for that? Might help other medevac pilots out to know how it got shut down.

They knew it was illegal.. Switched to the legal sched slightly before and during the audit. Their argument was that all the Medevac operators in the province were on the same illegal schedule so it was fine... Manitoba was my favorite province to fly......

Then there was the Medevac operator that claimed garden sprayers filled with gallons of pure isopropyl were exempt from DG regulations..... Til we refused to fly with it. Which took 2 weeks and cost me a year of my life from stress.

I have tons and tons of gritty dirt and it's mostly on Medevac.

My point is transport needs to have deeper and more regular looks at Medevac operators and in addition they should never be given a pass on new duty regs.

Absolutely, but if you could find out which legal arguments were used to claim the rolling duty day is illegal , then the pilots at other operators could at least try to fight back the next 4 years.

[Gino Under]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNtLkD646vM

Gino Under