79 Airplanes Retired

[rudder]

600 surplus pilots.
Lots of reductions to seats but many were unfilled.

I don’t see anything published.

Something will be published later today.


Those numbers is what I heard as well. Over 600 surplus. Close to 1600 reductions from the last bid

After CEWS expires, Skyregional will lay off around 75%. Jazz will lay off 50% (and that may not be the end of layoffs).

600/4200 active is 14%. If these numbers are accurate then while it will be sad news for those affected it seems a relatively favourable outcome considering the circumstances.

[sanjet]

Haven't got anything official yet. The 600 number is from the MOU only until September.

Hoping for the best but preparing for worst news.

[Fanblade]

I don’t see anything published.

Something will be published later today.


Those numbers is what I heard as well. Over 600 surplus. Close to 1600 reductions from the last bid

After CEWS expires, Skyregional will lay off around 75%. Jazz will lay off 50% (and that may not be the end of layoffs).

600/4200 active is 14%. If these numbers are accurate then while it will be sad news for those affected it seems a relatively favourable outcome considering the circumstances.

Pilots with a seniority number equal or junior to 3704 will be declared Inactive (Surplus)

As bad as that is. It’s still a relief.

[skypirate88]

Something will be published later today.


Those numbers is what I heard as well. Over 600 surplus. Close to 1600 reductions from the last bid

After CEWS expires, Skyregional will lay off around 75%. Jazz will lay off 50% (and that may not be the end of layoffs).

600/4200 active is 14%. If these numbers are accurate then while it will be sad news for those affected it seems a relatively favourable outcome considering the circumstances.

Pilots with a seniority number equal or junior to 3704 will be declared Inactive (Surplus)

As bad as that is. It’s still a relief.

That puts everyone hired beyond about August 2018 as surplus

[mbav8r]

So, the original 675 has been reduced to 600? Or, is that 600 more over the original 675?
Is that also based on the 55 hours job sharing MOU?

[babybus]

Surplus from seniority 3704 to 4499
795 surplus.
Based on 1/3 of the fleet being parked I was expecting +-1300 ...still a real heartbreaker.

[hithere]

Yes but as stated previously it is only a net loss of 40 airframes or 17% of your fleet. Still crappy for those affected. I guess we will find out soon what the Express fleet plan is

[babybus]

Yes but as stated previously it is only a net loss of 40 airframes or 17% of your fleet. Still crappy for those affected. I guess we will find out soon what the Express fleet plan is

correct...these layoffs pretty amount to about 17% of our pilots....massive massive amount of guys...2 months ago all guys were talking about is what position they wanted to upgrade to....it's crazy.

[altiplano]

Last bid was 4900+, now down to 3300 and change. That's about 1/3 of positions gone

[mbav8r]

Last bid was 4900+, now down to 3300 and change. That's about 1/3 of positions gone

Correct me if I’m wrong, 4900 included the 800 vacancies that were not filled.

[CanadianPilotQc]

Whats roughly ~ date of hire of number 3704?

[jpilot77]

August 2018

[L39Guy]

Last bid was 4900+, now down to 3300 and change. That's about 1/3 of positions gone

Correct me if I’m wrong, 4900 included the 800 vacancies that were not filled.

Yes, it appears that most of the reductions were unfilled jobs including those penciled in for the new FDR. Although I have not heard anything official, others on this forum claim that the air carriers have been given 18 months of relief on those. And that was about 500 to 700 positions.

With a 17% reduction in positions, in theory a 17% reduction in flying (about 14 hours/month) would keep everyone on the property or a 9% (7 hours per month) would keep 300 hundred pilots on the property. This would result in a 68 hour or 75 hour block month, respectively.

Inquiring minds would like to know if ACPA is pursuing such a work sharing arrangement. This has been done in the past to reduce the layoff numbers. I would submit that this is no ordinary recession but a unique situation in which everyone, not just the junior pilots, feel some pain. This will be interesting to watch.

[altiplano]

Last bid was 4900+, now down to 3300 and change. That's about 1/3 of positions gone

Correct me if I’m wrong, 4900 included the 800 vacancies that were not filled.

Right.

But lots of those positions that are gone are Captain seats... lots bumping down, losing left seat, lost activation dates, etc.

[mbav8r]

[quote=mbav8r post_id=<a href="tel:1115642">1115642</a> time=<a href="tel:1588726528">1588726528</a> user_id=8159]
[quote=altiplano post_id=<a href="tel:1115630">1115630</a> time=<a href="tel:1588719906">1588719906</a> user_id=3052]
Last bid was 4900+, now down to 3300 and change. That's about 1/3 of positions gone

Correct me if I’m wrong, 4900 included the 800 vacancies that were not filled.
[/quote]

Right.

But lots of those positions that are gone are Captain seats... lots bumping down, losing left seat, lost activation dates, etc.
[/quote]
Sorry, not trying to minimize it, was trying to get my head wrapped around it. I understand YYZ was hit hardest, this situation is worse than I previously envisioned when it all started.
Trudeau has alluded to some type of airline industry package coming this week, fingers crossed, it saves some jobs.

[landshark]

What’s the difference between the required pilots being 3327 and the surplus starting at 3704?

[iflyroads]

What’s the difference between the required pilots being 3327 and the surplus starting at 3704?

Managers, special leaves, medicals...etc, retirements too if I'm not mistaken

[landshark]

Thanks

[Inverted2]

You guys are fortunate that your company has so many different types and no status pay or I’m sure the layoff numbers would be higher.

[rudder]

For those in the know - what was the rationale behind eliminating all of the LCC 319 and WB RP positions?

Also, why the reductions on the 737?

[JoeyBarton]

You guys are fortunate that your company has so many different types and no status pay or I’m sure the layoff numbers would be higher.

Fortunate? It is why many joined AC and left a leisure carrier and started all over again. When people say ac is more stable or more money, some laugh and forget that at every crisis, AC is the place to be.
Proof again today.

[altiplano]

For those in the know - what was the rationale behind eliminating all of the LCC 319 and WB RP positions?

Also, why the reductions on the 737?

I'm clearly not "in the know" so just speculation, but...

737 reduced because of the slowdown on taking of additional deliveries. We were showing for the 50 aircraft expected, they'll meter those incoming even slower now. Also maybe because there are a bunch of guys getting pay activated as Captain but not yet trained. They mostly will all lose that.

LCC319 gone so guys can't bump down under the pay protection rules in our contract for xfer to the LCC. Also it somewhat limits the number of places to go down for reduced L767 and 737 pilots which would result in course rights returned. They hope those guys go into the mainline 320. Also FO seats in those positions are junior. Easy to layoff immediately without having to train to cover it.

WB RP is mostly a junior seat also, I'm just guessing majority will fall into this layoff, they can eliminate them immediately and cover the flying with existing FOs.

I also like to think that someone at the corporation has finally realized that the duplication in these positions is a waste of money. LCC 319, RP, saving pennies on pilot salary only to spend more with more managers, additional training, lost economies of scale, lost flexibility, and inefficient crewing.

They called for ideas for how to save money during this crisis. There you go - those 2 positions in particular screamed to be eliminated.

[rudder]

For those in the know - what was the rationale behind eliminating all of the LCC 319 and WB RP positions?

Also, why the reductions on the 737?

Just speculation, but...

737 reduced because of the slowdown on taking of additional deliveries. We were showing for the 50 aircraft expected, they'll Meyer those even slower now. Also maybe because there are a bunch of guys getting pay activated as Captain but not yet trained. They mostly will all lose that.

LCC319 gone so guys can't bump down under the pay protection rules in our contract for xfer to the LCC. Also it somewhat limits the number of places to go down for reduced L767 and 737 pilots which would result in course rights returned. They hope those guys go into the mainline 320. Also FO seats in those positions are junior. Easy to layoff immediately without having to train to cover it.

WB RP is mostly a junior seat also, I'm just guessing majority will fall into this layoff, they can eliminate them immediately and cover the flying with existing FOs.

I also like to think that someone at the corporation has finally realized that the duplication in these positions is a waste of money. LCC 319, RP, saving pennies on pilot salary only to spend more with more managers, additional training, lost economies of scale, lost flexibility, and inefficient crewing.

They called for ideas for how to save money during this crisis. There you go - those 2 positions in particular screamed to be eliminated.

Thx.

I think that AC is (was?) the only North American major with an RP qualification.

On the cost saving front - wouldn’t this be the perfect time to get rid of the Rouge operating certificate? Talk about duplication. Keep the brand and paint job but eliminate all of the administrative redundancy as well as staffing mobility restrictions,

[altiplano]

I edited some of my post, strange predictive text.... but your quote beat me...

Yeah, I agree. Get rid of it as far as pilot staff division is concerned. It was always just a wedge for Flight Ops. Everyone knows it costs the corporation more. Same dispatch, same ramp, same agents, same website, more managers, more training, lost productivity and efficiency.

If you want the density, have at 'er, but CARs duty day advantages have evaporated and a couple bucks an hour pilot wage, airport layovers, and socialized bidding don't drive enough savings to justify it. Whatever they tell us...

The trick for ACPA will be to not give to get rid of it when the corporation is going to do it anyway.

[Kapitanov]

For those in the know - what was the rationale behind eliminating all of the LCC 319 and WB RP positions?

Also, why the reductions on the 737?

WB RP is mostly a junior seat also, I'm just guessing majority will fall into this layoff, they can eliminate them immediately and cover the flying with existing FOs.

There are also covering RP flying by increasing all WB positions except obviously the 767 and 777 CA YYZ. Saving a lot of money here by reducing the amount of down training required. Imagine how many training events would a reduced 787 CA create!

In my opinion, it's a very strategic bid made by the company. It really looks like a paper bid so far, pretty sure a lot of the down training won't happen, at least in the short term. They will focus on who they need to down train first that will save them money first.