Airplane stuck in the states

[digits_]

They stated as a pilot I had no requirement to quarantine. Of course I will monitor for any symptoms and its responsible to self isolate in the meantime, but to be honest I had little to no interaction with anyone en-route.

Did they make that decision based on you arriving as a pilot, or based on your job as a corporate pilot?

[AirFrame]

If your kit plane is finished it will require an “N” registration. You will need an FAA pilot certificate to fly it in US airspace (or someone with an FAA certificate) to get it to the border. You can’t put a Canadian registration on it until all duties and taxes have been paid. In other words, until you Legally import the aircraft.

Incorrect.

When I purchased my RV from the US, I had it de-registered in the US, and registered in Canada, before it left the ground in the US. No taxes were paid until it was back in Canada. I obtained a ferry permit from the FAA valid for flight from departure to the Can/US border. I also obtained a ferry permit from Transport Canada valid from the Can/US border to the airport where it would be parked for the import inspection. Both permits allowed stops as necessary for fuel, food, and customs clearance purposes.

[AirFrame]

When asked my profession, I said corporate pilot.

This could be significant in your case. I wonder if a private pilot would get the same results.

[Gino Under]

Well. Your aircraft was already Canadian registered. No problem. The fact you didn’t quarantine in the USA is a state-by-state issue and YES, you were supposed to self quarantine for 14 days when you got back to Canada. That’s not an if, and, or maybe. It’s the requirement. It’s THE requirement.

[photofly]

double post

[photofly]

You can’t put a Canadian registration on it until all duties and taxes have been paid. In other words, until you Legally import the aircraft.

Incorrect.

When I purchased my RV from the US, I had it de-registered in the US, and registered in Canada, before it left the ground in the US. No taxes were paid until it was back in Canada.

These two facts are not incompatible. If the aircraft isn't in Canada yet, no taxes are yet due, and there would be no reason to refuse registration.

[Gino Under]

Seawings

You lucked out.
The Canpass agent obviously didn’t know the quarantine requirement either. BTW telling them you’re a pilot has no bearing on your admittance to Canada. As a Canadian, regardless of your occupation, they couldn’t stop you from entering Canada.
Maybe you’re impressed with your own importance but Customs isn’t.

[Gino Under]

Photofly

You cannot put a Canadian registration on an aircraft sitting in the United States and fly it back to Canada. Period. The same for a car or a boat. Cannot be done legally before they’re entered into the country. Otherwise you could simply slap a C- on your aircraft and tell Canpass nothing about the fact you’re importing it. Sheesh.
You need a registration from Transport Canada and when they hear your aircraft is in the States, you’re hooped.
Transport Canada doesn’t collect duties and taxes for CBPS/Revenue Canada. And yes, they know any aircraft for import has to have duties and taxes paid before you get to add or reveal the C-REGistration whether or not you haven’t imported it yet.
Simple, eh?

Gino

[digits_]

You cannot put a Canadian registration on an aircraft sitting in the United States and fly it back to Canada. Period.

Yes you can. Double period..

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/reg ... ge-18.html

Types of Registration

202.17
....

(2) The Minister shall register an aircraft with

(a) a provisional registration if the aircraft is not registered in Canada or in a foreign state and is to be operated for the purpose of importing it into Canada or for the purpose of transporting it from one location in Canada to another location in Canada;

It's not a weird rule. It's is publically advertised by different companies as one of 2 ways of getting a US airplane imported into Canada.
Roughly:
1) Have a US pilot fly it to Canada, and do import process there
or
2) Slap on temporary Canadian reg, fly it with your canadian license into Canada, and do import process there

And you have someone in this topic vouching that they did do something similar. Why don't you believe that?

[photofly]

Photofly

You cannot put a Canadian registration on an aircraft sitting in the United States and fly it back to Canada. Period.

Sure you can.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Pilots do not have to quarantine. Period

[Gino Under]

JohnnyHotRocks

Operating Crew don’t have to quarantine. As in airline “crew” on assigned duty.
What’s being a pilot got to do with anything?
The 14 day quarantine is mandatory even for a pilot.

Gino

[Gino Under]

Photofly

I stand corrected. I’ll take that ‘period’ back if I may?
The temporary reg gets you to the border. Then the importation begins, including the required TC inspections and paperwork. Then the Customs import can be completed to collect duties and taxes. The aircraft is likely duty free if it isn’t manufactured in Canada. Then, you get a full Canadian registration.
The temporary reg gets you from A to B. That’s it. (as I understand the Customs Act) because importation must be completed before you can legally operate your aircraft in Canada.
It’s not straight forward as some posts imply.

[Gino Under]

Digits_

You’re right. I’m wrong. It’s a learning process for me simply because I’ve only exported Canadian registered aircraft.

Gino

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I just drove across the border coming back from training. I was told there is no requirement for me to quarantine.
Being a pilot has everything to do with it. You are providing an essential service by operating an aircraft. If you had to quarantine everytime you crossed a border you would not be able to provide that service.
You may be correct about “operating crew” but as with every other rule, one customs agent interprets things differently than another.

[SeawingsUAE]

“Maybe you’re impressed with your own importance but Customs isn’t.“

No Gino, I am not. I was asked my occupation, I stated my occupation.

You are also incorrect regards the universal requirement to quarantine on return. Every returning Canadian is required to complete a form, the details listed on this form will dictate the requirement to Quarantine or not. If your occupation falls within the criteria to waive the requirement to quarantine it will limit you to only completing the top section of the form.
Regards actually quarantining, social distancing is a lifestyle for me anyway based on where I live, however if called to do so, I shall go to work, and based on the form I completed on return, there are no limitations imposed upon me to do so.

I can see this is a subject near and dear your heart, but you seem to be applying your own set of rules based on assumption. I think you need to accept that there simply are no set in stone rules. The situation is evolving and changing, and rules are suggested, made and changed, however they are all subject to a percentage of interpretation, both by those imposing them, and those attempting to follow them.
You can impose all the rules you like, but its up to the individual to be responsible and act accordingly.

[photofly]

Photofly

I stand corrected. I’ll take that ‘period’ back if I may?
The temporary reg gets you to the border. Then the importation begins, including the required TC inspections and paperwork. Then the Customs import can be completed to collect duties and taxes. The aircraft is likely duty free if it isn’t manufactured in Canada. Then, you get a full Canadian registration.
The temporary reg gets you from A to B. That’s it. (as I understand the Customs Act) because importation must be completed before you can legally operate your aircraft in Canada.
It’s not straight forward as some posts imply.

I don’t know if can complete the entire process, in the USA - I had a look last night and it doesn’t seem obvious either way in MSI26. But I know can can fly into Canada, beyond the border, to your airport to complete the process, on an interim registration and flight permit, with the aircraft under the new marks. (Tape them on the fuselage with duct tape if necessary).

You have to pay taxes at the customs airport of entry, but you can continue the journey from there, according to whatever is on your flight permit.

Now, here was the fun: filling in the customs declaration. The “goods” are an airplane, and they arrived by air, but you’re required for goods arriving by air to provide the details of the carrier. And there’s no “self” option.

Customs officer: you haven’t filled in the carrier.
Me: there isn’t a carrier.
Customs officer: well you wrote here that it arrived by air.
Me: that’s correct. It’s a airplane, and it arrived by air.
Customs officer: well who are you?
Me: I’m the pilot.
<looooong pause>
Customs officer: here you go. (Hands document to clerk to accept payment).

[Gino Under]

From experience, lesser used points of entry have CBP personnel dealing with these import issues who may not be clear on what’s required. To save face they will do what they think they need to do, sign, stamp, and wave you through. You depart while believing your home free. Sometime later you take a trip to Oshkosh and upon your return CBP finds anomalies with you aircraft paperwork and place it under Customs seizure.
What then?

[photofly]

Not sure what they’d have to complain about; I have the customs release and the receipt for the taxes...

[Gino Under]

photofly

Sorry, but I'm not applying my own set of rules. I've just re-read those quarantine exemption regs on the government website to make sure I wasn't in la la land. As I've already said, based on the government requirements, pilots are NOT exempt from quarantine. Crew are exempt. There's a big difference. That's crew as defined by regulations.

Everyone crossing the border in either direction can or may be asked their occupation or profession. Nothing odd about that. That's a perfectly normal question from a Customs agent.

The exemption from quarantine says to be exempt from the requirement upon your return, you must "work in the trade and transportation sector who are important for the movement of goods and people, including: truck drivers, crew on any plane, train or marine vessel". The word crew is defined in the regulation. I doubt that I need to go over that again. The exemption clearly does NOT say pilot it says crew.
You may have focused on the "on any plane" part. Someone returning from their recurrent isn't important for the movement of goods and people unless they are actually piloting a aeroplane moving goods and people from here to there.

Maybe you completed your form incorrectly by thinking pilot and crew implied the same thing?

P.S. It doesn't matter whether you walked home from recurrent, rode a bike, drove, swam or flew. In each case, you're profession is pilot. But you still have to quarantine, even after recurrent.

Gotta run,
Gino

[digits_]

As I've already said, based on the government requirements, pilots are NOT exempt from quarantine. Crew are exempt. There's a big difference. That's crew as defined by regulations.

Crew includes flight attendants and flight engineers as well as pilots.

It depends on which act you read through, to determine if a commercial component is required to be "crew"

- Customs seems to call you crew when you are operating a commercial airplane
- Immigration seesm to call you crew when you are employed on any plane
- Transport Canada calls you crew if you fly an airplane, doesn't specify privately or commercially, nor does it require employment
- The Canadian Quarantaine act doesn't include a definition of a crew, but does talk about a specific section for crew operating an airplane for the commercial transport of goods or passengers, implying that you can be "crew" if you don't

Since we are not dealing with visas or duty and tax, it would make sense to me to use the definition or information available from the Quarantaine act -used to enforce the covid rules- and Transport Canada -which enforces the aviation rules-.

The experiences described in this thread seem to support this.

But I'm aware other people disagree.

[photofly]

photofly

...

Maybe you completed your form incorrectly by thinking pilot and crew implied the same thing?

That was someone else who's been filling in forms. I've been safely tucked up in bed since March.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Just going by what Canada customs told me and many other pilots I know. There is no requirement to quarantine upon returning to Canada. Sorry it goes against your interpretation of the regs.

[Gino Under]

Johnny

So, obviously you aren’t an airline pilot or flying for a commercial air operator in Canada.
A collection of pilot friends couldn’t possibly have it wrong so I must be.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Gino Under

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Johnny

So, obviously you aren’t an airline pilot or flying for a commercial air operator in Canada.
A collection of pilot friends couldn’t possibly have it wrong so I must be.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Gino Under

I choose to listen to what Canada customs told me rather than someone on the internet.
BTW, I have also imported an airplane into Canada that already had Canadian markings so you are wrong about that one too.