tsgarp wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:23 pm
Your feelings may get hurt, but the aviation advice is top notch.
He's right you know. In the echo chamber you'll hear such gems as:
I taught approaches to the full landing when doing IFR training.
The student continued to the full landing with no forward visibility rather than miss at minimums.
If an instructor does not feel comfortable teaching zero / zero landings they should quit instructing.
That's some top notch advice right there.
If you want to distill the thought processes of most of those on the CJ site about flying, it’s the emphasis of superior skills rather than superior decision making.
In all my years and hours of flying including some pretty remote areas where alternates are far apart I can’t think of a single instance where I wished my instructor had taught me a 0/0 landing.
The emphasis there is on superior skills and superior decision making.
Regarding Zero/Zero landings and other like skills; not everyone has the innate potential desire to learn them. That is fine. Don’t get pissed off at people who do just because you don’t.
But my point is why should we be happy to work poverty wages and not touch a plane for 2 years while working a ramp.
What are your expectations for a 250 hr newbie in terms of job and pay right off the bat?
And everyone knows the drill. No one made anyone go into aviation in the first place, or anything else with expensive education and a long apprenticeship.
Flying is NO different than many, many other skilled professions in that regard. The big bucks are there, but later. Take it or leave it.
And talking about "sketchy operators".
Start your own f----ing company and tell us how easy it is.
wow, to me some real examples of a sketchy operator is one that didn't' want to pay for a satellite phone for their medevac crew, or forced FO's to front money for gas on their credit cards and dragging their feet on reimbursing the captains. That's not difficulty that's just neglect.
"What are your expectations for a 250 hr newbie in terms of job and pay right off the bat?"
Honesty from operators. think that's really in short supply these days.
" Take it or leave it."
The problem is, anyone who wants to push for positive change gets shit on.
shimmydampner wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:30 am
If you've been fucked over by a sketchy operator, that's unfortunate. Likewise if you've spent 2 years on the ramp and/or been paid poverty wages. No one is expecting you to be happy about it. But, no one cares to hear you whinge about it. Unfortunately it's part of the gauntlet that most Canadian aviators are forced to run in order to achieve their career goals. I'm not saying it's right, but it is reality so you would be well served to deal with it in a constructive way. No amount of your tears will change anything. The only way you might possibly affect any modicum of change would be to start your own operation and hire 200-250 hour pilots directly into the seats of your aircraft and pay them $70k/year to start. If you have neither the capital nor the balls to do that, you are pretty much going to be stuck with either sucking it up and slugging it out, or quitting. I heard Dominos was in need of delivery drivers.
The funny bit is the dominos guy would have a happier life and be less likely to have a divorce than most pilots. Death row people are probably happier than most av canada posters
tsgarp wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:59 pm
The emphasis there is on superior skills and superior decision making.
Regarding Zero/Zero landings and other like skills; not everyone has the innate potential desire to learn them. That is fine. Don’t get pissed off at people who do just because you don’t.
These days, if conducting a zero/zero landing (assuming we're talking cat 1 approach, no autoland) is your safest course of action, you probably did not exercise "superior decision making." The use of even "pretty good" decision making should keep you from having to do such a landing roughly 99.9% of the time. Furthermore, I think it's highly irresponsible to teach low time, low experience pilots that this is a "skill" to keep in their back pocket. It opens the door ever so slightly, to doing something, or a series of things that are really fucking stupid.
shimmydampner wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:25 pm
There's that melodrama again.
If all you have to offer is insults, it's a good sign that you've lost.
Lost what? And how is "melodrama" an insult? Do you feel triggered? And what is hyperbole a sign of? Or should I ask a death row inmate instead of a miserable pilot?
shimmydampner wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:25 pm
There's that melodrama again.
If all you have to offer is insults, it's a good sign that you've lost.
Lost what? And how is "melodrama" an insult? Do you feel triggered? And what is hyperbole a sign of? Or should I ask a death row inmate instead of a miserable pilot?
If you say something once it's advice, if you keep saying it again and again it's usually an insult...
He's right you know. In the echo chamber you'll hear such gems as:
That's some top notch advice right there.
If you want to distill the thought processes of most of those on the CJ site about flying, it’s the emphasis of superior skills rather than superior decision making.
In all my years and hours of flying including some pretty remote areas where alternates are far apart I can’t think of a single instance where I wished my instructor had taught me a 0/0 landing.
The emphasis there is on superior skills and superior decision making.
Regarding Zero/Zero landings and other like skills; not everyone has the innate potential desire to learn them. That is fine. Don’t get pissed off at people who do just because you don’t.
I’m not pissed off what gave you that impression?? I just don’t care and think it’s a waste of time.
Any monkey can follow the dials down to the ground. That’s basically what a pilot monitored approach is.
What’s challenging is transitioning to visual at Cat 1 minimums and not jumping off glide path as the ground rushes towards you.
tsgarp wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:59 pm
The emphasis there is on superior skills and superior decision making.
Regarding Zero/Zero landings and other like skills; not everyone has the innate potential desire to learn them. That is fine. Don’t get pissed off at people who do just because you don’t.
These days, if conducting a zero/zero landing (assuming we're talking cat 1 approach, no autoland) is your safest course of action, you probably did not exercise "superior decision making." The use of even "pretty good" decision making should keep you from having to do such a landing roughly 99.9% of the time. Furthermore, I think it's highly irresponsible to teach low time, low experience pilots that this is a "skill" to keep in their back pocket. It opens the door ever so slightly, to doing something, or a series of things that are really fucking stupid.
I would say that good decision making should keep you from having to do a 0/0 landing 99.999999999% of the time. Odds are you should be able to get through your whole career without ever having to do one. Odds are that 99.99999999999% of the time your will never have both engines flame out on an airliner below 3000' and have to force land. You should be able to get through your whole career without having that happen. However, if you are just a really luck guy, and win the aviation bad-luck lottery that day, it would be nice to have something to fall back on other than resignation to your fate. Again, not everything is for everyone. If learning that sort of thing from someone who has done it is not your cup of tea, so be it. Just bear in mind that the fact that you can't/won' do it doesn't mean others are not capable.
If you want to distill the thought processes of most of those on the CJ site about flying, it’s the emphasis of superior skills rather than superior decision making.
In all my years and hours of flying including some pretty remote areas where alternates are far apart I can’t think of a single instance where I wished my instructor had taught me a 0/0 landing.
The emphasis there is on superior skills and superior decision making.
Regarding Zero/Zero landings and other like skills; not everyone has the innate potential desire to learn them. That is fine. Don’t get pissed off at people who do just because you don’t.
I’m not pissed off what gave you that impression?? I just don’t care and think it’s a waste of time.
Any monkey can follow the dials down to the ground. That’s basically what a pilot monitored approach is.
What’s challenging is transitioning to visual at Cat 1 minimums and not jumping off glide path as the ground rushes towards you.
tsgarp wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:29 pm
I would say that good decision making should keep you from having to do a 0/0 landing 99.999999999% of the time.
I like those odds. Good decision making for the win!
tsgarp wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:29 pm
Odds are that 99.99999999999% of the time your will never have both engines flame out on an airliner below 3000' and have to force land. You should be able to get through your whole career without having that happen. However, if you are just a really luck guy, and win the aviation bad-luck lottery that day, it would be nice to have something to fall back on other than resignation to your fate.
Great point. I wonder how often Sully practiced dead sticking an airliner onto rivers?
hithere wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:12 pm
The irony of this industry is that for the past 3 years(right up until Covid hit) all the attributes of hard work, pay your dues etc were thrown out the window. Seneca brats With rich parents and other entitled metrosexuals with 200 hrs got hired at Jazz etc and as soon as the ink was dry on their ATPL were hired at AC. Now we are back to the only people that this industry can attract are those who are willing to work their asses off in the middle of nowhere for the remote possibility of a King Air job for poverty wages until this nightmare ends.
I'm trying to think of any other industry where a 22-25 year old doesn't have to work their ass off at the bottom.
I certainly did. Why is this a problem?
Clean toilets. I did at 20. You learn a lot by cleaning someone else's shit spread all over a bathroom.
Maybe that's beneath too many 20 something's.
Hey everyone!
You should clean toilets like this guy did because he is such a role model. I mean, he wouldn't respect you otherwise. And who wouldn't want the respect of this dude? Sounds like he's got so much life experience and wisdom!
I'm also jealous of all these young entitled brats who were smart enough to find good jobs quickly right away. Damn entitled brats!
tsgarp wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:29 pm
I would say that good decision making should keep you from having to do a 0/0 landing 99.999999999% of the time.
I like those odds. Good decision making for the win!
tsgarp wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:29 pm
Odds are that 99.99999999999% of the time your will never have both engines flame out on an airliner below 3000' and have to force land. You should be able to get through your whole career without having that happen. However, if you are just a really luck guy, and win the aviation bad-luck lottery that day, it would be nice to have something to fall back on other than resignation to your fate.
Great point. I wonder how often Sully practiced dead sticking an airliner onto rivers?
How often do you practice 0/0 landings?
My guess would be that Sully practiced a number of forced landings in the simulator. I’ve done a few 0/0 landings in the sim, never tried it in an actual aircraft.
tsgarp wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:10 pm
My guess would be that Sully practiced a number of forced landings in the simulator. I’ve done a few 0/0 landings in the sim, never tried it in an actual aircraft.
No doubt he did. And I would suspect that plenty of people like you and I have tried 0/0 landings in the sim out of curiosity. But goofing around in the sim is not what this was about, was it. This was about instructors teaching students that this is a viable technique for use in aircraft that are not equipped or certified to do so.
Aviation is a cruel mistress. You have to be in love with her. The rational part of your brain should be telling you pick another career, any career as there will be plenty of tears as your mistress breaks your heart on numerous occasions. But the emotional part of your brain can’t keep the sheer bloody desire that this is the job and the life you want
The good news is everyone that I have known who really really really wanted a flying career eventually had a pretty good run. But for many it was a very bumpy road.
So be clear eyed about how hard it is going to be, get your foot in the door any way you can. I am on my 6th flying job. Everyone was a result of the contacts I made by being in the industry
Be prepared to work a second job to make ends meet and go in with the idea it will be 5 years before you get a job actually flying a job.
Ask yourself “how bad do I want to be a commercial pilot” ?
I'm guessing by this attitude you've got your parents cleaning your shitter too.
Oh no, like i said i admire heroes like you who love cleaning toilets because you are so wise. We should all copy you!
I would not even ask to be paid at all just to show how great i am!
And I'm totally not jealous of people who made decisions that enriched their businesses or landed them great jobs quickly. Those people are just terrible! There is totally nothing to learn from them!
btw, i do have someone cleaning my shitter. i follow the law and i pay them well. people decide for themselves what they want to get in exchange for their labour. Educate yourself, research so you neither price yourself out of a job nor get marginalized/exploited on a terrible deal.
