The clubhouse.....

[PilotDAR]

Personally I also prioritize the posts I look at by the poster.

Yes, me too. Though I don't know the "real names" of many posters here, I recall many by their AvCanada name, and read (or not) their posts according to my impression of the value of their posts. I got to know a name, and it serves just fine in helping me to discern - it's just a nick name different to a real name. As pointed out to me recently, I do have the choice as to what I read, and the responsibility to exercise that choice (and not complain). So, generally, it does not interest me the real world identity of posters, the AvCanada name is enough.

For the posters with whom I would like to connect in the real world, it has never been a problem, and always always very worthwhile from my point of view. For those who want to find me in the real world, it does not seem to have been a problem for them. Otherwise, the anonymity I have here, serves me elsewhere as I intend.

Whether in person at the clubhouse, or here, there are excellent contributors, and a few I'm content to pass by. Just here, I can't supplement my opinion based on expression and body language, it's all what I read, so I have to be just a little more discerning....

[albertdesalvo]

So was this all so some people could figure out how to use the Foe list?

Every internet forum has something similar. Not to mention the issue has been debated here countless times. (yawn)

[Squaretail]

Isn't that one just as private/public as this one?

It is, but the main members have touted the lack of anonymity of the biggest posters as a positive aspect. Its now just a bunch of guys agreeing with one another. Its not very active, and not much new gets posted there.

[rookiepilot]

Personally I also prioritize the posts I look at by the poster.

Yes, me too. Though I don't know the "real names" of many posters here, I recall many by their AvCanada name, and read (or not) their posts according to my impression of the value of their posts. I got to know a name, and it serves just fine in helping me to discern - it's just a nick name different to a real name. As pointed out to me recently, I do have the choice as to what I read, and the responsibility to exercise that choice (and not complain). So, generally, it does not interest me the real world identity of posters, the AvCanada name is enough.

For the posters with whom I would like to connect in the real world, it has never been a problem, and always always very worthwhile from my point of view. For those who want to find me in the real world, it does not seem to have been a problem for them. Otherwise, the anonymity I have here, serves me elsewhere as I intend.

Whether in person at the clubhouse, or here, there are excellent contributors, and a few I'm content to pass by. Just here, I can't supplement my opinion based on expression and body language, it's all what I read, so I have to be just a little more discerning....

I'm a bit confused by this post Dar. You began the thread seeking to effect change -- which I think is admirable -- in seeing this site as more of a "community clubhouse" -- by exhorting other members.

This post seems to say, just walk by and engage when it suits the poster, or pass by.

I seek to challenge and effect positive change, and not just here. I see you as the same. That's a compliment!

Don't give up on that aspiration. This site can be excellent, not just "pretty good", or "better" as it's been described.

That means, if we aren't using real names, and we aren't setting up a block function, and even if we are, that obviously abusive posters are publicly called out and challenged.

In my view there are still posters on this site that should be permanently banned. Period.

I have done this -- challenge the abusers -- and I expect the site "leaders" to also do this.

If someone was abusing your copilot or FA, you'd stick up for them, Captains? Then do it here. It's not acceptable to say "that's just part of a free exchange of ideas".

No, it isn't. Some people are going through a rough time in their personal life. I've been there, too, and talked openly about it. They shouldn't be abused, nor forced to leave the community because of targeted trolling.

Otherwise the "clubhouse" you aspire to in creating this thread will never happen.

[PilotDAR]

You began the thread seeking to effect change

Not so much change, just an emphasis on courteous conduct, and respect for other members. Whether a member can be identified in the real world by name or not, does not influence how they should be treated. I am unwilling to accept a degeneration in conduct in this clubhouse, or a real one, I just won't care to come any more.

As would be the case in a real clubhouse, if some/new/junior/wannabe attendees are rude and annoying to established members, the established members won't attend/contribute any more. Who wins when that happens?

[tsgarp]

Then -- I expect if the community is serious about this being a respectful clubhouse -- that being, people can disagree on many things --- the NEXT time someone is Personally attacked as to Who they are -- not what they believe is good flying habits -- the "clubhouse" is an illusion.

Or AvCan can follow Twitter and create a BLOCKED function. Then those who attack people's marriages, or my accident, or anything else, --- I recall BPF getting trolled a lot awhile back --- get cut off from all discussion.

I think we all know where the line is. This isn't hard.

Want to run your mouth that way, on my Twitter feed? You get blocked, and don't get to read the productive stuff.

Hoe about it? Let's have a a view on that option?

Cancel culture is a cure that is much worse than any disease it treats. Listening to asshats is the price that must be paid for open exchange of ideas.

Listening to differing opinions, not listening to asshats, is the price that must be paid for the open exchange of ideas.

The difficulty is that for many people the definition of asshat rapidly devolves into anyone who can't be persuaded to adopt a certain point of view. This rapidly mutates into censorship a leads to marked polarization. We've seen it throughout history, and we are seeing it today.

If someone is truly an asshat, the population at large will recognize that a ignore them.

[rookiepilot]

I've had the entire "mental health in Covid" thread deleted, because poster(s) decided it was a fun thread to hijack it and mock the entire topic of mental health for pilots.

I won't see that topic mocked, when the numbers are absolutely exploding throughout Canada.

The community who find that kind of topic as important as I do, loses out. You all have the site you want, I suppose, until it affects someone close to you.

Have a nice day.

[digits_]

I've had the entire "mental health in Covid" thread deleted, because poster(s) decided it was a fun thread to hijack and mock the entire topic of mental health for pilots.

The community who find that kind of topic as important as I do, loses.

What's mocking about posting the regulations that state you'll lose your medical if you get medicated for depression as a pilot? I'd say it's a pretty important factor in a discussion about mental health for pilots.

[rookiepilot]

I've had the entire "mental health in Covid" thread deleted, because poster(s) decided it was a fun thread to hijack and mock the entire topic of mental health for pilots.

The community who find that kind of topic as important as I do, loses.

What's mocking about posting the regulations that state you'll lose your medical if you get medicated for depression as a pilot? I'd say it's a pretty important factor in a discussion about mental health for pilots.

You don't think every commercial pilot isn't very aware of those regulations? No..............not buying.

Completely disagree as to intent and where the thread was headed. Some really sick individuals out there, who need therapy, and surely shouldn't be holding a pilot's licence, driver's licence or any kind of license.

I really wonder about their wives, if this is brought into their homes. Too many abusers out there, too.

Restart a new thread, Digits, if you wish.

[PilotDAR]

I would like to quote myself from last October:

So, while finding them in the AvCanada clubhouse, I still want to convey courtesy, and appreciation. And, for the new wannabe pilots who have come here, similarly, I want to appear to be courteous, and appreciate that they are interested in joining our passion. We need new pilots, more than every! And it's a much steeper hill than when I did it in the '70's.

So, aside form the occasional clarification, or defense, I would like to portray, receive, and generally see, conduct around here, which is at least as polite as would be the case if we were all sitting around with coffee. Why would anything less be acceptable - because people are anonymous? Pish posh!

A recent thread was a total embarrassment - you all know which one! If I were the Chief Pilot, and I heard the pilot applicants bickering like that amongst themselves while waiting for a job interview, they would not even get into my office! Isn't it an important element to be able to at least get along with the other person, if not encourage and inspire them?

A new person introduces themselves, asks for some support, and is generally treated pretty poorly, how does that make our industry look like somewhere they would like to invest in their training.

ALL of us, who are in aviation in Canada are to some degree dependent upon new pilots coming along. Why give them the cold shoulder when they do?

[digits_]

Who says we wouldn't get along?

I'm wondering what would happen in a real life clubhouse, when after the initial "hi", the new member would immediately complain about the language being used? I don't think it is that farfetched that the other members would want to address that, which is sort of what happened here as well...

[North Shore]

Digits, IMO, you don't get to say that, considering in the 'other' thread you posted this: "Can we have a male-only forum as well?" four posts in.. (and kicked off a massive, unnecessary, sihtstorm in doing so.)

[digits_]

Digits, IMO, you don't get to say that, considering in the 'other' thread you posted this: "Can we have a male-only forum as well?" four posts in.. (and kicked off a massive, unnecessary, sihtstorm in doing so.)

That was not directed at the OP. If equality is desired, I think it is a reasonable question. Note that nobody answered my question by the way. I doubt it was my question that kicked off the the discussion, I have a feeling it was more the OP's reply to my question which triggered some people.

The last post of the OP in that thread was also quite an eye opener. I can't quote it anymore of course, since the thread has been deleted or moved.

[Aviatard]

Digits, IMO, you don't get to say that, considering in the 'other' thread you posted this: "Can we have a male-only forum as well?" four posts in.. (and kicked off a massive, unnecessary, sihtstorm in doing so.)

That was not directed at the OP. If equality is desired, I think it is a reasonable question. Note that nobody answered my question by the way. I doubt it was my question that kicked off the the discussion, I have a feeling it was more the OP's reply to my question which triggered some people.

The last post of the OP in that thread was also quite an eye opener. I can't quote it anymore of course, since the thread has been deleted or moved.

Yeah thanks a lot, digits. You always gotta ruin it for everyone.



* this is a joke

[rookiepilot]

The very idea of a helpful "clubhouse" is an absolute joke. Please. Give it up.

That's been proven by the responses I received to 2 recent, very altruistic threads -- at least I thought so --- on very serious topics, started to help other pilots.

Never again, and that's fine with me.

It is what it is, as they say. Obviously some have such a sorry existence, they hang out on the internet all day, waiting to troll, attempting to try to make others feel more miserable than they clearly are.

Let me know when this fabled supportive clubhouse appears.I am still waiting.

When it does, perhaps the overall authored content will improve as well.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I recently had a discussion with another member here, and as a result, I've become quite aware of the brain drain that's been happening lately. Personally, I blame Covid. It's brought out the worst in all of us.

I joined this forum when I embarked upon a path to becoming a professional pilot, 2 years ago give or take. The quality of discussion then was top notch. Now, it's not. I understand that as a group, Covid has hit us particularly hard, and it comes out in the discussion here. It's kind of inevitable. But here's the thing - I would not have come here, if two years ago, I was presented with the incivility I see before me now.

This forum has been of immeasurable value to me. I met my flight instructor here (PPL flight test next week BTW!). I met mentors here. I met equals here. Hell, I even found an operator for a wilderness trip here. But most of those people are silent now, driven away by the polarizing mudslinging that's happening. It's a shame. Were I to stumble across this site today, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

What do I think is the problem? I think it's the largely hands-off moderation. While I'm an ardent supporter of free speech, I think it goes too far here. I think a heavier moderation hand is needed, and lord knows, I've been known to post things that I shouldn't have. I've been issued a couple of tongue lashings myself.

Wandering into flying as a profession, I've noticed two things about pilots: we have egos, and we're very aware of our mortality. It doesn't make for easy public discourse. Sprinkle in the pepper of vastly differing senses of humour, and we end up where we are now.

I hope the people who have left will come back, but I truly believe a heavier moderation policy is needed. I, for one, will not be offended if a few of my posts are deleted in the attempt.

[PilotDAR]

Aviation, more than many skills and pastimes, benefits from lots of mentoring, either one on one, or osmosis during conversations. It's pretty important that new pilots benefit from those with more experience. This is because the amount to be learned to be a safe new pilot exceeds what the curriculum can practically contain, and the disciplines involved are broader than the basic training, and too much for any one pilot to know thoroughly.

The clubhouse, be it a room at the airport, or a chat group like this, is a great place for this. New pilots benefit from the wisdom and experience of the older pilots, so like any "place", making the older pilots feel well received when they visit will attract and retain them, and allow the knowledge sharing. When I was a teenage airport kid, I was reminded a few times of the need to quietly fit in with the older pilots. I learned, and then learned a whole lot more! To this day, I have pilots 20 years my senior, who offer me advice on being better....

[Squaretail]

While the “clubhouse” seems like a good idea, for actual gaining of knowledge, you got to be where the action is happening, not where it’s just being talked about. I have also learned not to automatically venerate someone for being old, nor dismiss them for being young. Unfortunately the clubhouse vibe often does just that. Too much bullshit to wade through to get much meat. Not that there isn’t value, but it’s overrated. Too many fragile egos, too much politics. I have yet to see a club free from these, and have long let my memberships lapse.

[rookiepilot]

Let this thread.....just die already. Please. Respectfully.

It is so far from reality, this thread doesn't deserve any affirmation.

Sincerely.